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Sairento
Level 75
High Priest
Joined: 8/24/2018
Threads: 164
Posts: 7,943
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 12:30 AM
Post #41
Lol everyone with a fat message then me.
Anyways. Seriously, when you started in the year the game was released, or the year after that, pets were very hard to get. And now, gosh, free pet threads everywhere. And pets, that used to be worth 1mil gold+ now at 1k or lower. Seriously. And also, about the 6V thing, you work so hard to get that 6V! (Lets see, essence projects which require a lot of luck and around... I dunno, 500k to fund for(and those are only the cheapest essence), Dye projects which are around, hmm, something like 800k, when someone is selling a FERTILE offspring for 100k, thats fair. Seriously, realessing keeps the pet populations at okayish levels.
And gold, gold you get by missions. Its like, free gold. Do missions enough and you'll have like, 100k+. It will be hard to get gold when youre new, but thats just the way it is.
Katty
Level 75
Shadow of the Moon
Joined: 4/16/2018
Threads: 202
Posts: 3,974
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 12:35 AM
Post #42
your message isnt fat xD mine is an essay lol
Sairento
Level 75
High Priest
Joined: 8/24/2018
Threads: 164
Posts: 7,943
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 1:32 AM
Post #43
Now if only I could write that much on more /important/ things
Taptothebeat
Level 71
Candy Dispenser
Joined: 1/12/2013
Threads: 212
Posts: 3,658
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 1:44 AM
Post #44
it sounds more like an issue of not being able to figure out how to gain gold than a pet pricing issue. imo
Level up pets. Then just do missions, the legendary ones give 6k ea. Buy and sell a few items on the broker, and you're done. Should be able to get 500k gold pretty easily that way.
Edited By Taptothebeat on 10/18/2019 at 1:47 AM.
Malikas
Level 70
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 12/17/2015
Threads: 48
Posts: 941
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 3:27 AM
Post #45
I hear you Katt... there are so many 1g pets that no-one wants...
I really hope Krin implements a "floor" or minimum price for pets...I've been at sites that have this, and the market only has reasonable prices...
The most successful market I've seen has both a floor and "selling fee" of 10k... and the market is much more stable...
I don't bother selling 6vis anymore, as no-one wants them except at really low prices. *shrugs* But it doesn't really bother me. I learned early on, both for normal projects and max stats to only breed pets and max stats because you like them!
None of my max stat projects are profitable! But I don't mind, because I bred them for myself really. And from discussing with other breeders, most of their max stat pets are not profitable either because they are so expensive to do. I think only a handful are of breeders are profitable.
I sell because I enjoy it when people like my "pretties". But I want them to be valued, so I sell them for a high price. That way only ppl who really want them will get them. I know a lot of people who do max stat projects only for themselves and don't bother to sell at all!
Btw, don't worry Katt if your "dishwater" griffs don't sell...I have seen max stat griffs for 1g on advanced search in the past...
In the early days of max stats, there was a breeder who max statted before getting vis, and didn't like the "uglies" produced (their words). So they gave up on the site and sold all their (fertile!) max stat griffs for 1g each...After that, max griffs ony sold for low prices unless they had exclusive traits/pb/etc...
In terms of releasing, I think its healthy. As storywise, the pets are doing fine in the wild (and you can call them back with diamonds, so no permanent loss).
I mainly release to keep my stables organised. I also have my hatchery on "auto-release" (because otherwise I wouldn't have enough space in my stables!). So if I don't name them, they go back to the wild. And I try to keep only the pets I really like, since I don't have a lot of stables (considering how long I've been here).
But I like it this way, as I can enjoy my pets. If there were too many, I'd lose track of them, and I wouldnt have a connection to each one, like I do now (for most).
So my motto is, if you don't like releasing, don't sell pets! (or only sell for very high prices)
Its a big part of the site, so people should feel comfortable to release without being guilt-tripped (or worse!).
Katty
Level 75
Shadow of the Moon
Joined: 4/16/2018
Threads: 202
Posts: 3,974
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 3:31 AM
Post #46
Btw, don't worry Katt if your "dishwater" griffs don't sell...I have seen max stat griffs for 1g on advanced search in the past...
I dont breed them unless someone complains about my prices and wants to pay 100k for a max stat xD they are my ugly alternative xD i cant ruin the value of max stat non themed griffs xD they are already ruined
Malikas
Level 70
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 12/17/2015
Threads: 48
Posts: 941
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 3:33 AM
Post #47
I think it might be an issue with the tutorial Tap... There is a lot on how to battle/catch sylestis/etc, but not a lot on how to do missions... so very few newbies understand how important missions are for making gold, or even how to do missions properly.
I know I didn't, until I stumbled across a guide in the forums!
In fact, a large number of newbies only start to make gold during the fests, rather than through missions...
But you're right, once people figure out missions, and get to the orange missions, gold becomes much easier...
Articu
Level 70
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 4/20/2016
Threads: 146
Posts: 1,782
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 10:57 AM
Post #48
i personally don't have too much say in this because though i've been here a while, it wasn't until recently that i started to get into project breeding. these are just my personal reasons for releasing pets, or at least my understanding of why other people release:
1) the pet doesn't have desired traits
this one is obvious. any project breeder (particularly those starting from scratch with themed pets) usually have a goal in mind for how they want those pets to look. others, like myself, just hoard a bunch of one theme and then breed until 6v because chaos is fun *looks at my frozen dew nixies* while i have around 50 of those in my stables, including tags, i've also released around 50 offspring i didn't want or need. that is nothing compared to some other players, but still, you get my point
2) the pet doesn't have desired stats
again, another obvious one for max/super stat breeders. just as pets can hatch with wrong or not enough traits, they can also hatch with not good enough stats. i've seen that people prefer not to sell these (definitely not fertile, if they do). it is easier to release them over keeping them around for no reason
3) too many pets
this one typically applies to new players, for the most part. they find pretty pets, they buy them, then they have no space for anything else. so they release some, most, or even all of the pets they bought. i did that, at least, back in my noob days. having a lot of pets without a stablehand is not something i would personally recommend
4) trying to lower the number of pets for a certain species for sale
i totally get this one. releasing pets that have been up for sale for a while that no one buys should be released. if no one buys pets i have for sale after a week or two after offering them up, i release them because it's clear they are unwanted
there are probably more, but i'm exhausted lol. just my two cents though
Grapejuice
Level 70
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 1/8/2016
Threads: 155
Posts: 22,899
Posted: 10/18/2019 at 1:39 PM
Post #49
I have to admit these types of arguments have been going on for awhile now (although I do want to say a good job to everyone who's been able to not only keep a level head but apologize if they think they've gone too far, it's really sweet and shows what kind of community this is)
And I've attempted to summarize the main points brought up on this thread (plus some of my own):
releasing pets is part of the game.
- you get rewards (higher themed encounters)
- it's impossible for the game to run if you don't release some of these
- the market suffers if you don't
New Players Demaning 3g 6vis (Not all newbies, many are wonderful and very nice, just a couple of people are very vocal about this. I don't mean this to be rude in any way so sorry if I offended)
- 6vis take a lot of time and work, it's very disheartening to hear that their value has dropped to 3g
- There are many newbie friendly threads that offer them free avatar items/pets/gold. complaining that what you've been given isn't enough is offputting and seems greedy.
- we all started at the bottom like you, and we were able to climb up. If we can do it, you can. If you think you can't we're always happy to help.
Getting gold is difficult
- the tutorial doesn't really cover how to get gold, so this is an understandable misconception.
- there are many guides in the forums that explain how to gain gold quickly (up to 60k in a day on missions alone)
Pricey PB's & Projects
- PB's are still related to themes and are often more sought after because they have more traits. Time and money is still sunk into them.
- most projects are likely to never make a profit. The set-up alone can cost anywhere in the hundred thousands to even millions.
-Unless you were the one to put in the time and gold of a project, do not complain about the pricing. If it's your project, price it however you like, you've earned that right.
Sorry if this sounds rude or mean in any way but it's good to talk about these things. Let's just remember to be civil and that everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Also please remember to do your research, look at both sides, and think carefully about how others feel before responding, there's a big difference between having an opinion and expressing it and simply shooting people down or attacking them personally rather than their argument.
Edited By Grapejuice on 10/18/2019 at 5:03 PM.
MistressNyx
Level 75
The Eggstraordinaire
Joined: 1/19/2018
Threads: 121
Posts: 2,487
Posted: 10/19/2019 at 3:28 PM
Post #50
I know lots of other players, many of whom are admittedly more knowledgeable on the subject, have replied to this, but I feel as though I should give my say as well.
Why do I release pets personally?
Lots of the time, they're simply 'dishwater' pets, as we've dubbed them. Those 'dishwaters' are pets with dull, undesirable colors, named because, well, dishwater isn't usually a very appealing color, is it? Even pets with two lovely looking parents can give a not-so-nice offspring. For example, these two Ny'venes:
They're both very nice looking pets, in my opinion. But if I were to breed them together, I could get something looking like this:
Some of the colors may be nice, but overall I can say I don't like this pet. Now say we go to the search and find another cheap 6vis up for breeding, and we breed this new Vene with one that has, say, clashing or already faded colors. We're likely to get an even worse looking dishwater pet. In this case, I would wait until the Vene is 42 days old, the LG releasing age, then release it to get the bonus in TLG.
I've released project pets because when I'm going for a final result, I don't need a pet that ends up with, say, only one carry of a trait I'm going for when I have several others with a vis of that trait and other vis/carries besides.
I release because I don't feel the need to keep pad looking pets like this cluttering up my stables. I pay to feed all my pets, and why should I dump a bunch of gold down the drain each day to care for pets I don't care about? I like getting TLG benefits to increase my chances of finding a nest, and I do that by releasing pets. You can also take a view on it like the group The Releasers Of Sylestia.
(Approved by Ebonyflicker, The Original Creator of this club)
~This Thread is Now Inactive and Closed~
If you are planning to message us:
Please consider the following:
1. Why do you need to message us?
a. To ask about pets that were bought and released.
If so, don't. We like our peace.
b. To chat about normal things/apply.
Alright, all for it.
Please treat us like human beings, and please have an open mind.
STOP HARASSING US
In the faraway land called Sylestia, lived a petite Lupora named Duchess Rune. She has deemed a prized possession to most adventurers that occasionally glimpsed into her owner's stables. For the juvenile, Lup did not care for the bitter confinements of her owner's stable. Duchess Rune yearned to feel the warmth of the sun and to gaze at the stars that made the twilight sky glitter.
Her owner, Anabella never fed her sylesti's. Sometimes the fifteen-year-old would wait weeks before noticing that all of her pets needed to be mass-revived. Though Duchess Rune didn't have to worry about the dreaded "sleep" yet, she was still terrified to be booted out of the hatchery and forced into the stables. The only time Duchess Rune ever witnessed the sun, was when her mother was obtained by another adventurer for an outrageous price.
The baby Lupora wanted to escape these stables, but Anabella never let her "precious" purebred out of her sight. If Duchess Rune couldn't escape this prison, she at least fancied to accompany the warriors when they aided Anabella in battles against hostile creatures. Of course, her owner perpetually formulated an excuse that Duchess Rune would ruin her fur or chip her claws if she ever tried to fight.
One day, Anabella took her three, level fifty-five Zolnixis and left. About half the day had gone by when the owner had returned with a bag filled with gold coins, armor, and other trinkets that were found along the trail in The Sweet Apple Orchard. Anabella glanced one at Duchess Rune before nodding her head to herself. It was strange to see her owner do that sort of gesture.
Two days had gone by, and Duchess Rune was almost about to turn into an Adolescent. This scared the poor Lupora almost to death, yet some of the stable pets had been happy for the past two days. Presumably, Anabella had received a lot of gold for completing quests. The Lup looked at the hoard of items in one of the corners of the stables. Nothing but seasoned cloth and vials of mysterious liquids laid there.
Suddenly, laughter broke out beyond the doors to the stables. Today was an adoption day, or so the owner calls it. Three people seemed to be accompanying Anabella into the grimy stables. One of them looked at Duchess Rune. The creature aimed at her as her friends began to regard her as well. The owner looked concerned but was not willing to lose potential customers.
"She is all yours!" The owner shouted as the three creatures that rescued Duchess Rune from the stables. They set her on the ground and smiled while handing a few apples to the Lupora.
"You are now free to do as you like, Duchess Rune." The three strangers spoke in unison before walking away from the Lupora.
"Wait!" She squeaked and followed after them, "Who are you?" The strangers stopped and looked at her with amused faces.
"We are the Releasers of Sylestia," with those final words, they disappeared into the morning fog.
Please understand that this was not a sob story to get people to join our cause! I had a lot of fun writing this little short story and I've felt as if I did a good job. I want others to understand why I and others release pets for other people's stables. Yes, people will get mad at us. Will that stop me from trying to help the Sylestian economy? No. Will it stop others from trying to do the same? Probably. I can understand if someone wishes not to be apart of this club anymore if they've been getting harassed by others.
The only way this club is going to be taken down is if Krinadon asks me to do so or locks the thread so no one else can post on it. I refuse to let others tell me what I should and should not do (unless it's a site admin; then I will most definitely listen xD). Please refrain from commenting about how horrible I or anyone else is if they join. I will not stand others harassing my fellow releasers.
Why do other players release pets?
I think enough people have already given their input for you to figure this out.
As a whole, many of us release pets because Sylestia's economy is bad. Pretty bad. I don't feel like typing everything out right now so I'll just leave all this for you to read.
This isn't really a suggestion, more like a question/concern I've had since getting serious about breeding.
I've noticed(like many others) that the in-game economy is pretty bad. Especially with some purebred restricted themes that are being sold for less than 1k gold(ex: Arctic Nomad Vol, Emperor's Dragon Nixi, and some others that I can't think of atm).
These days, whenever new restricted traits come out, I wait for someone to breed it and then wait for it to get overbred then I buy one for less than 30k gold. Or I just buy a themed pet with all the visible restricted traits except 1 carried restricted trait(they can go for less than 10k at times) then I breed it with a 4 vis completed retricted.
The only thing stable in the economy is Max stats and it's mainly because they're all sold as "unbreedable".
And of course, there are 6-vis pets getting sold for 1g. <-- This also makes personal projects undervalued. Because people don't see a themed tag they aren't as inclined to buy it as there are multiple 6-vis pets they can buy for <5kg. Breeding projects can take over a year to complete and lots of luck and essences so having the end product being sold for just 30kg is pretty disappointing. This also somewhat affects 6 vis themed pets that are overbred.
I feel like the biggest problems are A) breeding costs and B) unlimited hatchery space
Completed restricted trait themed pets and 1st gen exclusive gened pets can be found available for breeding for <1k gold.
There should be a bottom-line price for breeding for all pets, I saw it as a suggestion from another thread which I thought was a great idea.
There should also be limited hatchery space(another idea from another thread), AP points seem very useless, maybe they can be used to buy hatchery space.
Another option I saw was an adoption system(like chicken smoothie) this way new player can get pets they may want but I would make it for only adult pets(based on stable space) so people can't adopt a bunch into their hatcheries.
I don't expect everyone to agree with me, just putting my thoughts out there.
Other forums that talk about this:
https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=58004
https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=57990
I also found that the 1g pets has been a problem since 2013.
As explained in this forum:https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=8927
In another 2013 forum(https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=6016)
Krinadon said: "However, we have been brainstorming multiple ideas to address the issue of too many pets. We are definitely aware of the growing trend and will be implementing some attempts to improve the issue in the near future."
You could bring up the 42 day release thing for lost grove, but it barely made a dent in the broken economy.
There's this 2014 thread where Faiona comments on it(https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=10193)
She mentions ideas like, "pet buying NPC that buys your pets for either gold or scales", "We will eventually create an actual pet auction system",and "Get rid of unlimited hatcheries and make it so that pets get released at adolescent instead of adult if there isn't room in your stables. ".
I think those are some great ideas but it's been 5 years...Maybe one day they'll be added into the game.
Once again no hate or shade intended, just voicing out my opinions.
I wasn't even thinking about the item being from the Lost Grove itself, but like say randomly after you release 10 pets, you can get a Lesser Pet Dye. Something found in the scale shop, but still useful, especially to players like me (and yes, I know 10 is extremely low for a pet dye). So, you release 10 pets, and you now have 50/50 odds of geting a pet dye with the next release. (BTW, if I ever type 'exalt' instead of 'release' please forgive me...)If you don't get a Lesser Pet Dye, your chances go up to say 55/45 with the next released pet. Once you get a pet dye, your chances are reset and you then have to release 10 more pets to get a 50/50 chance.
If they add in other items, especially consumables (as those can be taken out of the economy by using them), that players want, and that don't need to have specific age pets released, or don't require a huge number of pets released (if something required say 1K+ pets released, I probably would never even bother trying for it, because that amount seems insanely large, while something like 100 pets release would be much more managable. Not saying they can't have items that are at the 1K+ pets released, but not all items should be)
I just come into this as being more of a fan of adding to an existing mechanic than taking away from an existing mechanic.
We already have Pet Release, but it is under utilized (I only release pets after 42 days, and since I am relatively new and don't have a huge amount of stable space, this means that I tend to want younger pets out, however, I don't breed for now and when I do start breeding, I plan to release my cast offs) because, at least to me, there is no incentive to release.
As you said, you don't care for the Lost Grove, so getting a better chance at a nest there isn't worth it to you.
However, you might be interested in a chance at getting a pet dye, or a genetic mutator, or perhaps even 1 use test kits or genetic scanners. (I know I would love to have the one use genetic test kits, because I am finding it hard to get the permanent one due to the high price of diamonds, so I would be more likely to start releasing pets hoping to get one). Perhaps even exclusive avatar items not found elsewhere (at very high tiers).
If there were certain types of pets that were needed to be taken out of the economy, there could be perhaps different tiers for different types. We already have several types of pets, so perhaps 'offspring' could have a different set of releasing rewards than 'tamed'.
This would still allow players to breed as much as they want, and still not require them to be infertile (I have to admit, I probably will be one of the players, if I ever get my breeding projects completed, who would sell fertile offspring, because generally I don't like getting infertile offspring), because even if those players themselves weren't interested in the rewards, other players might be and would be likely to buy very cheap pets for the chance to get a very expensive item from releasing.
I am coming into this from Flight Rising, which has this same problem (though there the admins I believe have said they never intended dragons to be a source of income, but rather wanted them to be cheap and easily obtained), and I feel it is due to the same things: dragons can breed indefinitely, have multiple babies per nest, and there are items that can be used to immediately hatch a nest as well. However, on the other hand, exalting isn't handled the same way. You get money for exalting, yes, but generally it isn't worth it, at least to me, to exalt. There is no other reason to exalt unless you are hugely into dominance, and not everyone is.
There is also a sub-culture, and I have seen a bit of it here, that dislikes exalting and while they don't actively try to discourage it, they have 'exalt rescues' threads where they buy fodder priced dragons and try to get them forever homes.
Both places, here and FR, I feel would benefit from making getting rid of the pets, (exalting and releasing) more enticing, in order to get more players to do so.
The only thing I would be somewhat afraid of, in adding releasing rewards, would be potentially the rewards might crash those particular item's value. However, if those rewards were given high tiers and then moved down tiers until the price started being drastically affected, then it might help stop those prices from tanking. That is also why I feel avatar items should only be at high tiers (because you only need one copy of the item) and most of the items should be consumables, so that players can be tempted to use the item instead of selling it.
Fai and Krin have even has given their voices to this issue:
So I just wanted to say that these are things that are being worked on and considered currently to "fix" the pet economy.
1. Fix the pet search so that it's easier for people to find pets that they want to buy. (Now that the festival is over Krin for the past couple of days has been working on the new search).
2. Implement a pet buying NPC that buys your pets for either gold or scales. The currency is undetermined at this time, but most likely it will be for scales. The reasoning is to not decrease the value of gold and have another way to earn scales besides for only nurturing.
3. Get rid of unlimited hatcheries and make it so that pets get released at adolescent instead of adult if there isn't room in your stables.
4. We will eventually create an actual pet auction system. So instead of having to have forum thread auctions there will be an interface to easily search and look at pet auctions.
Anyway though...I promise that we are very aware of everything and we aren't ignoring the situation. Krin is working on the pet search currently, which once released it should definitely help. People will be able to search for pets with specific genes and mutations etc.
Krinadon's Further Details:
Keep in mind, Faiona only posted bulletin points - not full detailed descriptions.
When (or if) we implement these, there will be many things involved. For example, with the Hatchery revamp, if we decide to have pets removed at Adolescence, then most likely you will have the option of manually moving them once they become Hatchlings.
Additionally, as we revamp each page, we will be adding many new features. The goal of each page revamp is to improve its aesthetics, improve its efficiency and load times, improve user friendliness, improve functionality, and lastly to add new features/information.
So as another example, with the Advanced Search that I'm working on atm, I'm hopefully making it look a lot nicer, I'm dramatically decreasing the amount of time required to find results, I'm dramatically decreasing the amount of resources used by the server, I'm making it actually work properly and return accurate results, and I'm adding new parameters to search by.
So, ^ that type of revamp will happen to everything we revamp, including the Stables and Hatchery.
Hopefully this clarifies some misconceptions or worries.
TLDR
Sylestia has become overrun with cheap pets that not many people want, and that older players want to help get off the market so newbies don't think pets like this
are good, decent pets. I want to help the economy. I do it to keep my stables neat.
And there's my two cents on this issue.
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