Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=4#39 Author: Spaceshiprat Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 7:21 AM I'm new to the site but I immediately disliked the expectation that you should not sell fertile high stat pets because it would "make people angry", that sort of thing should be either forced by the site, or left to people's judgement, if someone wants to sell cheap pets, that's up to them, so long as they came by the pets legitimately and aren't doing some weird kind of market manipulation. (I do see how this site is prone to problems in that direction: the lack of hatchery slots means an individual can breed an *exponential* amount of pets) The harassment though is obviously Not Ok. And yes, even getting publicly available information counts as doxing if you're posting it around and making jokes about swatting. I think perhaps showing more of the harassing messages would go a ways in convincing people the bans were warranted. Even with names and details redacted, I think most of us can assume you wouldn't just make them up. Edit: now, is there a way to know if I'm trying to interact with a banned user? I wouldn't want to be spending searching pets and PMing their owners to just find out they can't reply. are the pets of banned players gone or still in the search or what?

I actually have photo evidence from 2021 of Skor in particular taking advantage of the hatchery slots. Nearly 2k egglings and hatchlings with hundreds more adolescents. Yikes

Oops, guess they are a little vague. Thanks for the detailed reply though; it really helps!

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=25#244 Author: Neytiri875 Time Posted: 3/25/2023 at 8:28 AM The one being discussed right now where this happened. Is fox's twitch server.

That is..not accurate. The server in question, where these screenshots happened, is not the stream server for Fox. I can confirm that.
But it is also not the YuriNeko server, either. I can also confirm that.

Edit because I am on mobile. Ghhh I hate that I lose my apostrophes.

I have evidence of this, if really need-be - screenshots of goofy conversations past, because the people in the server were my friends, at one point - even if most of them are not, now.

Hi everyone who is reading this,

I am going to make one last post on this thread as an appeal to everyone who has posted, who will post, or who is thinking about posting:

As I have previously said in an earlier post of mine, I do not believe that anyone should be punished for feeling what they are feeling. Seeing friends get banned, being banned, or learning about several long term members of the community getting banned is an upsetting thing. Reading those screenshots can be upsetting. It was upsetting to me.

For people who want to post further about the situation to defend those that have been banned: it is not a good look. For people with no knowledge of the situation(s) and are going off of the information shared by Krin and Fai in this announcement, this is a very very bad look, and will only serve to make people even more upset. There might be more to the story, but that is not going to reverse the decision made by the admin. It is only going to cause people to get more upset than they already are/may be.

And for those condemning the actions of the banned players (myself included, as I was definitely not happy reading those screen shots and how some people have chosen to act on their emotions), I want to put a gentle reminder that many of these people might be in a fragile mental state. We can all choose to be kind.

And for those who might be banned (I am not sure if you can see this, but it is worth a try) AND those that have been harassed by a banned player, please remember to be kind to yourselves and to others. I am so so sorry things went the way that they did, and I hope you are able to take care of yourself and prioritize your mental and physical wellbeing. If that means taking a break from what is happening on Sylestia currently, I highly encourage that.

At the end of the day, Sylestia is a game and a community where people from all over come to relieve stress and have fun. I hope the spirit and sentiment of that is not lost and we are all able to remember that.

Best wishes to all,
Fleura

*edited for clarity

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=23#226 Author: Krinadon Time Posted: 3/25/2023 at 6:34 AM [quote=2699239] I am not going to ban you for voicing your opinion in a civil way. However, ask and you shall receive: We have removed the screenshots as we feel that there is no more benefit from leaving them up. As we have stated, we have thousands of messages. We have not shared the majority of things and I don't think we really need to. But, since this is about me personally and I do not mind sharing it, enjoy.

ty for the reply.

googled definition of doxxing:
"the action or process of searching for and publishing private or identifying information about a particular individual on the internet, typically with malicious intent."

if the search was intentinal or if it was malicious can only be guessed, but these screenshots do not show the player ever shares the information.

the questions asking to share are def out of line. but did the player with the info answer? did they put the info in the server? did they say they would send it over dm? did you get a zuchhini? other than saying they now know name/address and distance from their home, which is not actually details, there is nothing that got shared. they said in a later message they would not share this personal info. which is conveniently not shown here ( idk if it was the person who originaly ss or just for this post though )

Amen. Thank you for that, truly. And as Moony said.. thank you to those who did bring their concerns to Krin. It was the right thing to do.. and sometimes the right thing is not always the easiest thing. I too appreciate what you have done to keep people safe.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=26#257 Author: Moonybard Time Posted: 3/25/2023 at 12:18 PM FAFO. Looks like a lot of these players thought they might be above the consequences. Let's first address breaches of the Terms of Service. I'll go ahead and bold the important bits. III b. When playing on the Site, you are expected to be respectful and courteous to both Staff and other players at all times. Sylestia does not condone hate speech or discrimination of any kind. This can include, but is not limited to, race, gender, sexual preference, religion, and mental disabilities. -This may not be directly on site, but it does affect how they chose to play the game and conspire to deliberately sabotage aspects of it (re: the economy) Therefore, it's in breach of this rule, and, in a very roundabout way, rule I.g: I g. You may not use any type of cheat, script, hack, or anything that is designed to play the Site for you or give you an unfair advantage. Which, given the conspiracy to crash the economy, is a direct violation here. Joking or not, it seems it was discussed enough, and potentially put into motion(? I've been off the site for a couple of months, but I'm going to infer from some replies that one player did this, at least.) Moving right along through the ToS, III c. You may not harass, libel, defame, threaten, spam, or insult Staff or other players anywhere on the Site. -Again, not onsite, but affecting how they played it, and, most importantly, deliberately impersonating staff on Twitter, and threatening to doxx and swat the administrator. I cannot stress enough how horrifyingly wrong that is. III d. You may not distribute anywhere on the site the following: harmful content, sexually explicit content, another player or Staffs personal private information, or offensive content regarding, but not limited to, race, gender, sexual preference, religion, and mental disabilities. -Considering they were looking at Krin's actual house, this is worthy of an instant ban, IMO. That's dangerous, and could lead to very, very real legal action. They're lucky that all Krin did was ban them. I can't say I would have done the same, but I also believe in making sure someone understands fully the gravity of their actions. III e. You may not promote or talk about any type of illegal activities anywhere on the Site. You agree to use the Site only for lawful purposes. You are prohibited from any use of the Site that would constitute an illegal offense, give rise to liability or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national, or international laws or regulations. -Doxxing and swatting are illegal. Next. III I. You agree not to post, use, or transmit content that you do not have the right to post or use. Content, for example, under intellectual property, confidentiality, privacy or other applicable laws. -The entire rule. The whole rule. This one is also not limited to "on the site," because anywhere, that's downright dangerous. (re: doxxing and swatting. I can't stress it enough.) III j. You may not attempt to troll another player or Staff. Please be respectful and courteous while dealing with other players. -Deliberately conspiring to, or actively attempting to crash the economy is a direct violation of this, and acting coy and innocent is trolling. Next. VII b. Sylestia may terminate your access to any part of the Site at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice, effective immediately. If you wish to terminate this Agreement or your Site account you can stop using our Site. All provisions of this Agreement which by their nature should survive termination shall survive termination, including, without limitation, ownership provisions, warranty disclaimers, indemnity, and limitations of liability. -Krin et al had ample evidence and reasonable cause to ban everyone, not that they necessarily needed it to begin with, but it's there and it's valid. That's just Sylestia's ToS. Let's look at Discord's, shall we? Content in Discord's Services: Your Content: You dont have any obligation to add content to the services. If you choose to add content to the services, you are responsible for ensuring that you have the right to do so, that you have the right to grant the licenses in this section of these terms, and that your content is lawful. We take no responsibility for any of your content, and we are not responsible for others use of your content. -Essentially, Discord isn't legally responsible for you conspiring to break the law using it (re: doxxing and swatting) But, by using Discord to do this, you are in violation of their Tos, too. Content in Discord's Services: Other Content: Our services might also provide you with access to other peoples content. You may not use this content without that persons consent, or as allowed by law. Other peoples content is theirs and doesnt necessarily reflect Discords own views. Discord doesnt endorse or verify the accuracy or reliability of content shared by Discord users. We work hard to try to make Discord a safe, positive, and inclusive place, but cannot prevent you from encountering content that you may find objectionable or offensive. You agree we will not be liable for any harm caused by that content. You may report content that you think violates any of our policies. We have the right, but not the obligation, to review such reports and block or remove content at our discretion. -By being a message on their client, the chat is, by default, content. No one had permission to post Krin's personal info. Restrictions on Your Use of Discord's Services: Bullet Point 1: Dont use the services to do harm to yourself or others. Among other things, this includes trying to gain access to another users account or any non-public portions of the services, infringing anyone elses intellectual property rights or any other proprietary rights, exploiting, harassing, bullying, spamming, auto-messaging, or auto-dialing people through our services. -Say it with me, doxxing and swatting. Restrictions on Your Use of Discord's Services: Bullet Point 3: Dont use the services to do anything else thats illegal. This includes using the services to plan or commit any crime or do anything else that is illegal. -Ditto above. Finally, let's look at Discord's Community Guidelines, since these apply to all chats and servers. Respect Each Other: Bullet Point 1: Do not promote, coordinate, or engage in harassment. Discord is a platform where everyone can find a place to belong, and harassment prevents users from building healthy communities. We do not allow harassing behavior such as sustained bullying, ban or block evasion, doxxing, or coordinating server joins for the purposes of harassing server members (such as server raiding). -Oh look, verbatim! One could argue that the conspiracy to crash the economy falls into this category as well. Most of the rest of their CG is about illegal stuff and preventing the distribution of it. Tl;dr: These players are not only in breach of Sylestia's ToS, they're in breach of Discord's, too. Also, everyone who is claiming that the concerned players are "moles" are absolutely astonishing. If I witnessed something like this, I would absolutely contact whoever was the target of this behavior. Absolutely appalling, asinine, and childish, at least, and exceedingly dangerous at most. If one of those concerned members is reading this, I applaud you. Thank you for doing what needed to be done. The only cure for corruption and abuse of power like this is to cut it completely out. Krin is fully within his rights to ban the living daylights out of them and any co-conspirators. Also, for those arguing "private server," you lose all reasonable expectations of privacy the instant you let other people into a server. DMs are one thing. Servers are another. Finally, I laud the godlike composure and professionalism Krin continues to use here. Hats off, sir. Actions have consequences. These are the consequences of their actions. Full stop. End of story.

^
This, just this. They may have been okay people, but they still broke both Discord's and Sylestia's ToS, regardless. They did deserve to be banned for this. Of course, I hope they can soon realize their mistake and become better people for it. I have read most of the replies to this thread, and to the people who were harassed for various reasons, my heart goes out to you. Thank you Moony for doing what I couldn't and didn't want to do yesterday.

This... is not what I wanted to log into when I checked the site this morning. I'm not super active and I tend to avoid community Discord servers of most games I play, so I was unaware of any of these things going on - and I am horrified any of this happened.

It's not something I'm unfamiliar with either - another game I have actively played for over a decade has a Discord server that I ended up leaving because of stalking and harassment to smaller players from more popular individuals. I was a popular individual myself, if to a slightly lesser extent, and didn't want to be associated with people who blocked, harassed, and slandered innocent users who didn't know they had done anything the group had disapproved of.

I've also had plenty of grievances with sites for their staff decisions - not once have I attempted to harm anyone over it. I just quit playing or refused to use the service I didn't agree with. Actively choosing to seek out someone's information for kicks is creepy, sharing it is dangerous. Even if none of these users directly attacked Krin in his own home, that information was made available for someone who could have decided to. Causing physical harm to someone over a game isn't acceptable - neither is providing someone the road to do so!

The intention to crash the statted pet market is also more than just selling pets at low prices. If they were successful in crashing the market, there would no doubt be a mass exodus of stat project makers - which, depending on how much they contribute to the site in diamond sales, could cripple Sylestia as a whole. Even if they don't contribute much themselves due to getting to that perfect comfort spot where their sales generate enough to keep the next project going, it would heavily discourage newer users from making their own maxes. It's more than just getting a sparkly tank pet for a more affordable price when the intention is to flood the market with cheap maxes and drive the economy into the dirt.

This does also bring up another concern, which is how plausible their plan was. It would, in fact, be incredibly easy to completely tank the stat market because of how max/super stat pets are made. Their prices as is are to make up for the literal YEARS it takes to make them and the real life money - which can equate to hundreds depending on how fast you want the project done - funneled into their creation. I believe that, as they stand, max/super stats are a danger to the Sylestian economy and something about them and their creation needs to be reevaluated and perhaps changed. Currently all it takes is one person who disagrees with sterilized pets to make it through the statting process - or someone who has finished projects to decide they no longer like the site or its creators. To be frank, that scares the absolute shiznit out of me.