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Forum Index > Suggestion Box > The Issues with Themes
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Author Thread Post
Limor
Level 72
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 7/5/2016
Threads: 293
Posts: 19,132
Posted: 12/23/2021 at 1:42 PM Post #11
adding all suggestions at the bottom part of the second post :)
SpaceElf1
Level 75
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/17/2014
Threads: 669
Posts: 12,858
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 3:01 PM Post #12
Limor, I haven't had a chance to study this thread yet, but it seems to reflect several issues that have concerned me for a while.

If you or anyone else wish to discuss my two Themes (Macabre Puffadore and Forest Wanderer Drayel) in this thread, you have my permission.
Frawn
Level 75
High Druid
Joined: 10/4/2014
Threads: 53
Posts: 2,454
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 3:18 PM Post #13
I only speak for Sylvorpas, because that's what I've spent seven years working on exclusively...I feel I've earned the right to call myself an expert on this species.

I've stopped submitting designs because I'm tired of spending the time creating a color palette that sets itself apart from all current themes, only to have admins pick a design that looks like a slightly-tweaked version of something we already have. I realized years ago that whoever picks the designs does NOT consistently share my aesthetic sense. Not a single one of my designs has ever been picked in seven years.

Not to mention that every festival, dozens of Sylvorpa designs are submitted by players who have no interest in breeding or collecting them, but only want the recognition of having their design picked. I don't design for other species because I don't have a robust understanding of their trait combos and common colors.

In short, I wish that the dominant breeders and collectors had more weight when it came to new theme selection, but I see how that would be impossible to justify. Short of that, I wish we could vote for new themes as a whole site. Short of THAT, the admins should absolutely keep a record and try not to repeat themselves.
Limor
Level 72
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 7/5/2016
Threads: 293
Posts: 19,132
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 4:04 PM Post #14
Thank you Spelf! What issues were you thinking of specifically that you noticed??
Limor
Level 72
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 7/5/2016
Threads: 293
Posts: 19,132
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 4:06 PM Post #15
I noticed more repeating in less popular species and it is something I could only see being fixed by a themed catalog - draes for example - when getting the percentages of colors I had no clue so many were brown due to not liking the species as much as others.

I'm hoping with those graphs Krin will take better note of repeating color schemes and eventually we plan to catalog all species
Nightbane
Level 75
Knight
Joined: 11/29/2013
Threads: 288
Posts: 11,951
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 6:34 PM Post #16
Sadly this is one of the reasons i hadn't done any designing in a long while, its fun, but i realized it usually ends up with some form of alterations. :(
Hiraeth
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 7/14/2015
Threads: 187
Posts: 2,685
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 6:45 PM Post #17
I have noticed what Frawn has said as well. I don't even collect the affected species and I've noticed theme deja vu - sometimes when the new themes release I think to myself 'haven't i seen this theme before?' when in fact i have seen a theme with a very similar color palette and trait interaction.

I do like the idea of anonymous voting.

i had an idea that would take up a lot of time for the site - a tab of the generator specifically for theme contests. Much like how the current generator is laid out, you design a theme and instead of 'save to designs' it's 'submit to themed list'

The 'view saved designs' tab would navigate to something similar: submitted designs would show like this:


- the designer's name would not be there, nor would the date created.
- you would have the option of favoriting a design (not your own)
- ^^^ this would not affect the 'finalists' of the contest, but *would* provide a way to see what designs the community likes
- finalists (6-8 designs) would be chosen and put to an official voting page, decided by the admins with input from the most favorited.
- this would make it harder for people to know whose design is whose.

just a few thoughts i had~
Aphelion
Level 75
Fright Master
Joined: 5/14/2016
Threads: 113
Posts: 9,837
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 7:20 PM Post #18
Minor thing here, but I don't think that it would be fair for dominant breeders and collectors to have more weight in theme selection.

While it is true that some people are submitting to gain recognition, I don't think that's a factor that should impact what theme gets chosen. What should be happening is that themes are being chosen based on quality and design. Even if someone's submitting just to have a theme to their name, if their design is nice, they should get picked. Some people submit designs for a few species that they think they have good palettes for, others try to submit for all species even if they don't have something good worked out - again, motivation shouldn't play a factor in whether you have the right to submit, or whether your submissions should be considered lesser than others.

There are as well plenty of designers who just like making designs for species while having no interest in breeding or collecting them. I, for example, like to mess around in the generator for aeris and I want nothing to do with them. I'm not saying my designs should be chosen or they are any good, but it's just something I like to do. I think the colour interactions on aeris are fun to work with.
Scathreoite
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 11/2/2014
Threads: 83
Posts: 4,115
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 7:58 PM Post #19
I think also something of note is that if I remember right, Krin has said that he and Fai pick themes kind of... based on how they're feeling or something? Like, I don't know, they feel like they want x species that has a y sort of colour palette maybe? I might have understood what was meant wrong.

But I feel like, we've had theme submission threads in the past where there was a specific theme put forth by the admins (like the sea creatures one from back in the day, with turtle nyte and such), and those still got plenty of entries all based on those specific things that were all still unique in execution.

So one option is, Krin and Fai maybe look through a past theme submit thread, determine how they're feeling for what kind of palette or idea they'd like to see for each species, and then have a list for any where they have particularly strong feelings on what they're after?
eg.
Aeridini- Purple shades
Aurleon- specific HEX code somewhere (ala lost pets)
Bulbori- Cosmos flower
Draeyl- anything
etc.
?
(especially given that apparently this fest we all just completely failed at providing... whatever it was they were looking for/feeling? Given that there's 13 admin themes this fest. That's more than a quarter of the new themes this fest that are admin design (even if we discount majestics entirely from both sides of the equation, since they're almost always admin-designed anyway, it's still 1/5 of the themes)

Additionally, with Krin and Fai now even having picked a theme from as far back as two years ago (even if just one, and it got species swapped and edited slightly), it's like. I'm starting to feel a weight to make a new theme for every species every fest because if I reuse one then I'm questioning if I'm technically reducing my chances of getting a theme picked? And that's stressful. (never mind the additional time and brainthink juice required to do a completely new set of themes for each fest rather than being perfectly fine with resubmitting/tweaking some that you were proud of from previous years)

Players getting some level of ability to vote, to express which themes or coloursets they prefer, I feel like would be good? I dunno. I know I personally wouldn't pick a design just because I was aware that someone I know/am friends with made it, I want to pick designs that make my brain go "mmmmmmm yeah, that's the stuff, that's pretty, I love it, I want one, or ten, or twenty" (even if I help someone fix a theme concept up, giving thoughts on how it could potentially be improved, that doesn't mean it's going to end up as a design that makes my brain do that, because I have my tastes and they have theirs)


also shoutout to the time I submitted a neph, years ago, and what came out the other side of the theme selection process was a neph theme based on a different species of swallowtail butterfly than the one my design was originally based on, with most if not all colours altered or swapped around.
(I will note that even now I'm not great at nephs, and the neph I submitted all that time ago probably could have done with a lot of tweaking to reach 'actually fairly decent' status in the eyes of Me Today, but uh, it was still a specific species of swallowtail that it was based on (admittedly I didn't think to LABEL it as that species specifically, because uh. It's the ONLY swallowtail species that commonly lives where I am and it didn't occur to me at the time that I probably should) where the theme it became was a different one)


original design based off Dainty/Dingy swallowtail vs theme adaptation based on black swallowtail
SpaceElf1
Level 75
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/17/2014
Threads: 669
Posts: 12,858
Posted: 12/28/2021 at 8:24 PM Post #20
I had noticed the preponderance of browns, grays, and blues before this. Have a look at examples of the two Themes of mine that have been accepted--a Macabre Puff and a Forest Wanderer Draeyl.


They are shades of brown, gray, and blue--a color palette I seldom use. None of my designs have been chosen since then (2017).

Today I noticed two Tagged Kelparies of two different Themes side by side in my Hatchery.


When I first noticed them, I thought they were the same Theme! This further illustrates how I think the process of Theme selection has fallen into a rut.


Another thing I've noticed, which I don't see specifically addressed her, is the "War Against Saturation." Each Festival there will be a very, very few Themes that have at least some saturated colors, and all the rest will have exclusively desaturated colors. The overall effect is to give Sylesties colors more like those of real animals--but they are fantasy animals. I don't think the original Tiger Lily Aeridini, the Leprechaun Lighira, Anthias Lunemara, or Spooky Ryori (just to name a few) would stand a chance these days.


Finally--do people whose designs get chosen from previous years still get the prize for designing a new Theme?
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