Private is private until there is some kind of threat. In the case with these bannings, it was determined there was a reasonable threat to the game and the site admin.

I find it disappointing that many of the people trying to argue about privacy or swatting etc haven't addressed the harassment other sylestia players have said they've experienced or the things that Fai has addressed. In my books, accusing site admin of bullying and demanding they respond to questions that have been addressed is not a good look. It is entitled. We are not owners of sylestia, we have no stake in it's development or direction. The most we can do if we don't like the direction a game is heading is to voice our feelings and if they are ignored then to simply **stop playing.** To take things further by mass messaging active players on Sylestia or harassing individuals is just a death spiral. And ignoring the allegations of real harassment in favor of arguing over a straw-man argument on privacy just shows me that people would rather bicker vent and react in the forums instead of reflecting on the actions that these banned players were accused of taking.

I think I am going to take a step back. I admired and looked up to many people that are now gone and it is a lot to process. I empathize with some of the people banned, I know I would be absolutely devastated if I discovered that I was banned from something I spent years investing in and playing and enjoying. And if I was friends with one of those players, I would also be deeply upset on behalf of my friend and want to push back against these decisions. But seriously, for everyone arguing about privacy or splitting hairs please go back and read about the harassment of other players and admin and other community members. That is what is so heartbreaking to me. For those doing the harassment, I hope they are able to self reflect and learn from the consequences of their decisions. I hope for healing for all involved.

Perhaps in the future there might be a way for friends of those banned to make an appeal to Krin for a ban to be lifted or made temporary on an individual case by case basis. The punishment should fit the crime and I don't believe people who didn't actively do something wrong should be banned. But just because I would like to see things addressed in the future to make sure no one got unjustly banned, i'm not going to sit here and defend the people who were harassing other Sylestia players or argue without knowing the details who specifically does/doesn't deserved to be banned. My hope is that going forward there will be an opportunity to evaluate the bans after everyone has been given time to cope and come to terms with what happened, as this has been very shocking and upsetting for me to read about I am sure many other people have high emotions too.

*edited for grammar

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=11#102 Author: Nalar Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 1:49 PM To all the people arguing that krin did not break anyones trust, allow me to propose a situation to you. Lets say you have a diary. You have kept it for many years, and you share your most private thoughts there. you use it as a place to vent, tell about sad and embarrassing situations, and everything in between. You and I are friends, and we also have a mutual friend we will call A. You trusted A. A is you best friend in the whole world. One day, i turn to A while you are not here, and I say; "A, i want you to go into (your) diary and take pictures of the most incriminating, embarrassing things you can find." and A says "Yes." A takes the photos, and i put them on my instagram for the express purpose of making fun of you. I tag people to come laugh at you, and i encourage people to say rude things of you. By this logic, why be mad at me? I didn't take a picture of your diary? I did not even touch your diary! You see how this type of thinking fails to work. but ok, lets say maybe I didn't ask for A to take pictures of your diary. It was A's idea, and they shared it with me. Then, i proceed with the instagram post, and the bullying, and the mocking. Would you be mad at me? By your logic, no! By the logic you are working with, we would still be best friends, and i would have 0 blame in the entire situation. Do you see how this logic is flawed?

Your logic is flawed, because it's not taking into account the potential harm, or the motive.

If a friend posted such screenshots to humiliate/get revenge on their friend, obviously that's bad, but this is more akin to if they reported evidence of something harmful and/or illegal to a teacher or parent because they were concerned.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=12#113 Author: Neytiri875 Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 2:06 PM This is paramount to getting fired from a job for saying you hate your job outside of work. In your own home. By this logic. A completely locked down server that isn't posted here, discussed here and isn't public at all.

I would say it's less akin to venting 'I hate my a-hole boss' privately to a friend, and more akin to being fired from your job for something like joking that you were going to sell corporate secrets to a rival company, or publically slandering your employer's business.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=12#115 Author: Grapejuice Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 2:08 PM I'm not so sure about the economy tanking situation as I was not part of this investigation for 5-6 months so I'm sure theres more complex details we're not seeing, but also I can understand making frustrated jokes in a server with friends. Don't entirely feel comfortable justifying or calling out the bans related to this. Doxxing and swatting however are non-negotiable. Even jokes about this kind of stuff is in very poor taste, I've had friends who were almost doxxed and it's been some of the scariest moments of their lives. It was awful to witness. If Krin and Fai geniunly felt unsafe or if players even suggested it'd be funny to do something like this I can understand why the ban. It sucks to see old players go, and there are some people I'll miss talking to on this site, but if I'm interested in keeping up with them I've made off site connections I can use for that purpose without hurting or putting this community in jeopardy. Besides if someone I know made doxxing jokes or threats maybe i didn't know them all that well. Additionally whats done is done, maybe more appeals can be made for certain players because I'm not sure how many were directly involved and how many just felt hurt that their friends were banned, but thats not something thats gonna happen right away not with trust being broken like this. So I think I'll just kinda give this time to settle before coming to any new conclusions or decisions on the rightness of this situation. I'm honestly kinda neutral about the screenshot shares because on the one hand breach of privacy, on the other, supposedly people came forward with this idk what to think Sorry to hear about whats been going on behind the scenes krin, thanks for letting us know. And keep safe out there everyone~ EDIT: I think it's important for people to remember that at the end of the day sylestia is a buisness, we've grown a lovely community here and its great that connections can be made and friendships and yadda yadda. But this is still a functioning buisness. They have legal rights and actions they can take. Thats not to say censorship and beware ye who enter and all that. Just that there's a very real profit that they have to make and people intentionally tanking it can affect a lot of peoples liveliehoods. Whether the actions taken or not are right I can't say. I don't have enough information. I'm honestly not that emotional over this because I'm aware that I'm a customer in this buisness. I'm aware of my position on this website and I'm not living in fear because if I adhere to their models I'm not gonna be in trouble. And if something I say does get me banned, then I guess i wouldn't want to support this buisness anyways. So for everyone comparing this and that take a step back and realize this setting is entirely different then metaphors and similies. it has its own nuances and situations. And at the end of the day it's a transaction to participate in this game. You can make connections and have fun, thats what they sell. But it's still being sold.

Also, yeah, the legal aspect can't be forgotten about. If there was harassment of other users, as well as staff, then the staff have an obligation to deal with it. What if a threat of doxxing or even swatting was carried out? What if someone harmed themselves because they couldn't cope with abuse they were receiving? Then the mods could be legally on the hook for it if they'd done nothing to prevent it, not to mention the worry about their own personal safety, and the integrity of their business.


Anyway, my overall opinion remains that if Krin really was abusing his power, he could have gotten rid of everyone associated with the banned users in one fell swoop, and this thread wouldn't be here.

However, I also agree that if the claims that some people have been banned who only joked about trying to break the site's economy, but didn't actually do it are true, and if they weren't personally involved in harassment/threats, then that is unfair.

I disagree, by the economic rationale being used here, I could be banned for simply choosing to lower prices on my max stats to match current market value, or for giving away teams of max stats because Im in a good mood, both of which Ive done before.
My point is that I cant see the validity of considering perceived intent when the outcome is the same either way.
Whats the difference between them lowering prices or someone selling fertile max stats at low prices to make money quickly? because Ive seen that happen dozens of times without repercussions.
It seems like a thin line to draw, and I choose to disagree.

Edited to add:
I am not okay with any sort of harassment of players or staff, on-site or off, so the people targeted have my deepest sympathies.

This right here. Especially because I have pets it won't really take much to max and I bought then that way that I was going to sell a few just like a set number here and there for cheapish infertile. Not so cheapish fertile

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=15#143 Author: Atriella Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 3:07 PM I disagree, by the economic rationale being used here, I could be banned for simply choosing to lower prices on my max stats to match current market value, or for giving away teams of max stats because Im in a good mood, both of which Ive done before. My point is that I cant see the validity of considering perceived intent when the outcome is the same either way. Whats the difference between them lowering prices or someone selling fertile max stats at low prices to make money quickly? because Ive seen that happen dozens of times without repercussions. It seems like a thin line to draw, and I choose to disagree. Edited to add: I am not okay with any sort of harassment of players or staff, on-site or off, so the people targeted have my deepest sympathies.

As stated numerous times in this thread, no. You will not be banned for simply choosing to lower prices, etc.

As someone who is on semi-hiatus (log in and check to make sure my pets are fed and look at news) this is both surprising and not so surprising to me.

When I was active, many of the players that I can determine were banned were kind and I am shocked they would be involved in something like this.

However, a couple of them I am less shocked by because, while they were kind to me, they just always came across to me as feeling 'superior' or as if the rules didn't apply to them.

Re: the privacy thing, one of the things that I feel people need to realize is that if you put it online, it isn't private any more in most cases. it sounds like some of the other players that were invited to be in this discord group got concerned and decided to take their concerns to the 'authorities', in this case Krin and Fai. Which, to use the diary analogy, would be like you showing your friend your diary where it says you want to harm/bully someone else, and go on and on about doing so. That removes it from being 'private' and puts it into 'maybe this is something that should be brought out into the open, because this can *harm* someone if this person is serious'.

Also @Xavion if you are still doing breeding projects and need some supplies, I might have them, I have a lot of breeding things from various festivals that I don't use as I don't breed, though many of them are account bound. Just PM me if you are interested in them, I will gladly toss them to you (or use them on a pet you supply) just to get rid of them and have them still be useful to someone.

Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=105585&page=15#143 Author: Atriella Time Posted: 3/24/2023 at 3:07 PM I disagree, by the economic rationale being used here, I could be banned for simply choosing to lower prices on my max stats to match current market value, or for giving away teams of max stats because Im in a good mood, both of which Ive done before. My point is that I cant see the validity of considering perceived intent when the outcome is the same either way. Whats the difference between them lowering prices or someone selling fertile max stats at low prices to make money quickly? because Ive seen that happen dozens of times without repercussions. It seems like a thin line to draw, and I choose to disagree. Edited to add: I am not okay with any sort of harassment of players or staff, on-site or off, so the people targeted have my deepest sympathies.

I don't even think that is why they were banned. It was their blatant disrespect and the harm they were trying to create, even if that was unsuccessful. You are taking it to an extreme that is not even an extreme. Seriously got to have better things to do with your time.

because theyre not part of the trouble group?

Better than expressing my opinion on a decision that has caused lots of discourse, the same way you have? Respectfully I disagree, I am just as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours, and I have been entirely civil and levelheaded throughout the discussion.

kinda curious to the list of people. saw a few possible names but guess i dont really need to know since as far as i know i wasnt affected. as per usual people gotta be jerks