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Forum Index > News and Announcements > New Feature: Nurturing Grounds
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Author Thread Post
Renic
Level 70
Guardian of the Realm
Joined: 11/14/2018
Threads: 7
Posts: 57
Posted: 2/23/2020 at 6:41 PM Post #221
As I've seen it stated several times, 5000 scales is a lot for a nurture boost.

I normally make sure to nurture all boosted pets, since before the event. The average number was around 600~ pets before price change, upon which many boosted pets grew up and left, leaving about 300~ boosted pets behind. Now that many of those have also grown up, the number has decreased further to less than 100. It was less than 80 the other day. Currently, I'm doing about 500 nurtures a day for the fest, which gives me about 580 scales a day now. It takes about 10 days to earn 5k scales. If all 500 were boosted, I would be fine doing 5k scales a pet, it would only take 5 days then.

Which is why I think 2.5k scales would be better. It takes a while to reach, much more than 1k scales, but it also isn't going to take me over a week to reach when I'm trying to boost eggs to hatch faster so I can try to reach certain goals of mine faster. An option of boosting for a certain amount of time would also be good I think. I saw someone mention only partial boosting for a certain time period, but I think having options would be better. Permanent boost via scales, permanent boost via diamonds, boost for partial time via scale, and boost for partial time via diamonds. The option could also be proportional to the average time it take a boosted pet to grow, price wise that is. Say it takes 5 days for a pet boosted from the start to become a teenager. That's about 1k scales a day, and works if you're only trying to hatch an egg faster.

Another thought I had not too long ago rises from the peerless avatar tokens. A nurture boost token. Something to be bought with gold. Some people can't buy diamonds, or just can't get the nurtures fast enough for their liking. A way to boost via gold might be a good option. Of course, I imagine the token won't cost something small like 20k gold or anything, probably more about 1mil gold or more, and that seems like a good price for it. It's something a person would need to save for, and would potentially help the economy of the site.

Edit: Some more food for thought that a friend just suggested. Using AP. At the moment, it is just sitting there, and I know there are plans for the future for it, but I know that first, there was mentioned bringing it down for some of the older players who had way over the current cap of 100k AP, and this could be one way to do it.
Edited By Renic on 2/24/2020 at 10:12 AM.
Lampyridae
Level 70
The Perfectionist
Joined: 5/5/2019
Threads: 22
Posts: 264
Posted: 2/23/2020 at 7:58 PM Post #222
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=23#221
Author: Renic
Time Posted: 2/23/2020 at 6:41 PM
As I've seen it stated several times, 5000 scales is a lot for a nurture boost.

I normally make sure to nurture all boosted pets, since before the event. The average number was around 600~ pets before price change, upon which many boosted pets grew up and left, leaving about 300~ boosted pets behind. Now that many of those have also grown up, the number has decreased further to less than 100. It was less than 80 the other day. Currently, I'm doing about 500 nurtures a day for the fest, which gives me about 580 scales a day now. It takes about 10 days to earn 5k scales. If all 500 were boosted, I would be fine doing 5k scales a pet, it would only take 5 days then.

Which is why I think 2.5k scales would be better. It takes a while to reach, much more than 1k scales, but it also isn't going to take me over a week to reach when I'm trying to boost eggs to hatch faster so I can try to reach certain goals of mine faster. An option of boosting for a certain amount of time would also be good I think. I saw someone mention only partial boosting for a certain time period, but I think having options would be better. Permanent boost via scales, permanent boost via diamonds, boost for partial time via scale, and boost for partial time via diamonds. The option could also be proportional to the average time it take a boosted pet to grow, price wise that is. Say it takes 5 days for a pet boosted from the start to become a teenager. That's about 1k scales a day, and works if you're only trying to hatch an egg faster.

Another thought I had not too long ago rises from the peerless avatar tokens. A nurture boost token. Something to be bought with gold. Some people can't buy diamonds, or just can't get the nurtures fast enough for their liking. A way to boost via gold might be a good option. Of course, I imagine the token won't cost something small like 20k gold or anything, probably more about 1mil gold or more, and that seems like a good price for it. It's something a person would need to save for, and would potentially help the economy of the site.

Edit: Some more food for thought that a friend just suggested. Using AP. At the moment, it is just sitting there, and I know there are plans for the future for it, but I know that first, there was mentioned bringing it down for some of the older players who had way over the current cap of 100k AP, and this could be one way to do it.

I do second this, and while I respect the decision to increase prices and gather information before changing it, there were perhaps seventy nurture-boosted pets by the time I got to nurturing today. I feel like 2500 scales would be a decent balance and make it more affordable.
Edit, 2/24/20: 59 nurture-boosted when I started today. I feel like a dynamically updated cost in scales for this would help balance it out.
Edited By Lampyridae on 2/24/2020 at 7:14 PM.
Xavion
Level 70
The Perfectionist
Joined: 10/15/2013
Threads: 358
Posts: 4,976
Posted: 2/24/2020 at 3:13 PM Post #223
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=15#141
Author: Krinadon
Time Posted: 2/14/2020 at 12:40 PM
Made some revisions to what I was thinking based on the feedback so far. This is now my proposal:

-Every 6 (Instead of 5) Nurtures on Eggling Adds +1 Maturity
-Every 8 (Instead of 5) Nurtures on Hatchling Adds +1 Stat Boost (same algorithm as it currently is)
-Every 4 (Currently Not a Mechanic) Nurtures on Hatchling Adds +1 Maturity
-Cost of Nurture Boost increases to 60 Diamonds or 5,000 Scales
-Scale Shop pricing will not change at this time


This puts a cap of +72 total Stat Boosts per Hatchling (with 576 Nurtures) as well as theoretically being grown from a Hatchling to an Adolescent 'instantly' if it's Nurtured 576 times (subtract 4 for every hour of real time).

The cost increase would be two fold. Currently, Prismatic Philters and Magical Pies do the following:

-Magical Pie: Costs 100 Diamonds and increases Maturity by 144 Maturity Points instantly.

-Prismatic Philter: Costs 80 Diamonds and gives 70 Stat Boosts (with how the system calculates).

-Nurture Boost: Potential ceiling of a Hatchling reaching Adolescence in a day (144 Maturity Points with 576 Nurtures) and receiving up to 72 Stat Boosts during that time. Since this is not a guaranteed nor instant process, the price is a little cheaper than the two services simply combined into one. They also are not mutually exclusive so all 3 can be utilized on a single Pet.


So I'm wondering how exactly the "This puts a cap of +72 total Stat Boosts per Hatchling (with 576 Nurtures)" part was calculated?

I was seeing how close I could get to the cap by using some projects I needed to raise the mana of.

All Parents: maxed in literally everything except for having only 120 mana

All Eggs: hatched with mana philter for a total of 140 mana

End results - and these hit adolescent at 3 days old, mind you, and I have no way to know how many nurtures they received by the end. .-. I even set up a fifth pet boosted as an "I can view your profile and not age you" to get a good guesstimate, and there were plenty of nurtures happening.
182 mana
181 mana
182 mana
180 mana

Theoretically, 120 + 20 + 72 should have granted me 200 mana with 12 mana left to spare after it reached max, so how did I only get ~41/72 stats for this? Does the full 72 stats require literally 576 nurtures in a single hour as soon as it hatches or something?
Krinadon
Level 70
Guardian of the Realm
Site Administrator
Joined: 12/17/2012
Threads: 813
Posts: 11,962
Posted: 2/24/2020 at 5:19 PM Post #224
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=23#223
Author: Xavion
Time Posted: 2/24/2020 at 3:13 PM
[quote=2004612]

So I'm wondering how exactly the "This puts a cap of +72 total Stat Boosts per Hatchling (with 576 Nurtures)" part was calculated?

I was seeing how close I could get to the cap by using some projects I needed to raise the mana of.

All Parents: maxed in literally everything except for having only 120 mana

All Eggs: hatched with mana philter for a total of 140 mana

End results - and these hit adolescent at 3 days old, mind you, and I have no way to know how many nurtures they received by the end. .-. I even set up a fifth pet boosted as an "I can view your profile and not age you" to get a good guesstimate, and there were plenty of nurtures happening.
182 mana
181 mana
182 mana
180 mana

Theoretically, 120 + 20 + 72 should have granted me 200 mana with 12 mana left to spare after it reached max, so how did I only get ~41/72 stats for this? Does the full 72 stats require literally 576 nurtures in a single hour as soon as it hatches or something?


Correct. Since Nurtures increase a Hatchling's Maturity and you cannot Nurture it once it's an Adolescent, for each hour of time that passes, it reduces the ceiling on what it can achieve with stat boosts.

So...

Hour 0: 576 available. 144 Hours / 72 Stat Boosts
Hour 1: 572 available: 143 Hours / 71 Stat Boosts
Hour 2: 568 available: 142 Hours / 71 Stat Boosts
...

A ceiling of 72 Stat Boosts is considered exceptionally high. Compared to what has been available for the past 7 years, that's a massive improvement on what could be achieved through Nurtures. An average of about 30-40 is where I aimed (for Nurture Boosted pets) given its price point of 60 Diamonds - especially since it can be used in addition to a Prismatic Philter and doubles as a Magical Pie as well, albeit just not instantaneous results.


As for the price adjustments. The original intention (for our current sized playerbase and amount of Egglings/Hatchlings at a given time) was about ~100ish max at a time.

I plan on implementing a sliding scale price adjustment that automatically adjusts based on the rolling 7 day average amount of Nurture Boosted pets. So, if the average amount dips below 100, the price will decrease in order to entice more Nurture Boosts. If the average amount increases above 100, the price will increase in order to try and balance it back to around 100.

I will also be adjusting the ratio of Diamonds:Scales by dropping the Scale value slightly.

I will try and get this implemented sometime this week. Specific information will be announced once it's solidified.
Edited By Krinadon on 2/24/2020 at 5:21 PM.
Krinadon
Level 70
Guardian of the Realm
Site Administrator
Joined: 12/17/2012
Threads: 813
Posts: 11,962
Posted: 2/28/2020 at 11:36 AM Post #225
Hey, all. Just a quick update on the Nurture Boost as I know the last thing I had said was that I would be revisiting it after a few weeks of observations.

I'm still pretty satisfied with the feature, both Nurture Boosting and the adjustments to Nurturing itself, and I think it's pretty balanced at the moment. There's still a ton of traffic with Nurturing compared to previously and I'm fairly confident that will continue moving forward. Especially once the Scale Shop is overhauled and possibly a few other things added down the road to further promote daily Nurturing. In general, I don't really have much concern atm for Nurturing to become obsolete.

Nurturing Boosts are still being consistently purchased and are still definitely showing value. So I'm satisfied with that. However, I do feel that the pricing needs a bit of an adjustment and as previously stated, I want to implement a sliding scale price format for the feature.

So here is what I'm wanting to do:

-Adjust the Diamonds to Scales ratio to be 60 Diamonds to 4,200 Scales.

-At midnight each day, data will be recorded for the amount of current Nurture Boosted pets. The server will then keep track of a 7 day rolling average of that amount.

-The minimum for price scaling will be an average of 50 or less Nurture Boosted pets. The maximum for price scaling will be an average of 150 or more Nurture Boosted pets.

-The minimum price for the minimum average will be 50 Diamonds or 3,500 Scales. The maximum price for the maximum average will be 100 Diamonds or 7,000 Scales.

-For every +/- 4 average of Pets, the price will adjust by +/- 2 Diamonds or 140 Scales.

-The price will be static for the entire duration of a day and will only change each day at midnight.

-Information will be added to the Nurture Boost purchasing popup that will display all relevant information to the player so that they can make an informed decision.



This will probably go into effect next week. I first need to solidify the tracking code (probably today) and let it run for 7 days before releasing it. So probably Saturday, 3/7 will be the first day of this new pricing system.
Edited By Krinadon on 2/28/2020 at 11:40 AM.
Kaosu
Level 70
Trickster
Joined: 1/7/2013
Threads: 37
Posts: 505
Posted: 2/28/2020 at 12:25 PM Post #226
I think you might need to take another statistic into account, for those of us that don't actually use it that often. Unless I'm misunderstanding, this sliding scale seems to take into account overall averages on the page, but fails to take into account how many people are using it. So if one person goes through and nurture boosts 30 pets and one only boosts one, I feel that the person only boosting one should have slightly cheaper prices.

Example:
mega breeder fills a 25 slot hatchery of boosted eggies, pays 3,500 scales a peace, potentially raises the prices for the next day by themselves

personal breeder breeds 1 egg, wants to boost, but due to bad timing the scale price is 7,000. Can't afford that, so doesn't boost, misses out on the extra nurtures

OR

personal breeder hordes breeding until the nurture price goes down, and smaller projects take that much longer to complete

I don't think the people that breed either smaller batches or randomly should have to price fight with those that breed a ton of eggs at once, therefor I think the sliding scale needs to be applied per boost per person as well

First boost = 3,500; if second egg boosted while first one still active, boost = 4,000
etc.

This is just my opinion though, and while I do feel I fall someone in the middle with breeding projects (I'm working on one but I'm currently annoyed with it so cleaning things out at the moment), I feel that those that boost too many eggs could potentially mess up the system if the average cost was site wide without taking into account personal usage as well.

TL;DR - Take into account how many boosts each person is using as well as average site usage when calculating price.
Krinadon
Level 70
Guardian of the Realm
Site Administrator
Joined: 12/17/2012
Threads: 813
Posts: 11,962
Posted: 2/28/2020 at 12:33 PM Post #227
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=85951&page=23#226
Author: Kaosu
Time Posted: 2/28/2020 at 12:25 PM
I think you might need to take another statistic into account, for those of us that don't actually use it that often. Unless I'm misunderstanding, this sliding scale seems to take into account overall averages on the page, but fails to take into account how many people are using it. So if one person goes through and nurture boosts 30 pets and one only boosts one, I feel that the person only boosting one should have slightly cheaper prices.

Example:
mega breeder fills a 25 slot hatchery of boosted eggies, pays 3,500 scales a peace, potentially raises the prices for the next day by themselves

personal breeder breeds 1 egg, wants to boost, but due to bad timing the scale price is 7,000. Can't afford that, so doesn't boost, misses out on the extra nurtures

OR

personal breeder hordes breeding until the nurture price goes down, and smaller projects take that much longer to complete

I don't think the people that breed either smaller batches or randomly should have to price fight with those that breed a ton of eggs at once, therefor I think the sliding scale needs to be applied per boost per person as well

First boost = 3,500; if second egg boosted while first one still active, boost = 4,000
etc.

This is just my opinion though, and while I do feel I fall someone in the middle with breeding projects (I'm working on one but I'm currently annoyed with it so cleaning things out at the moment), I feel that those that boost too many eggs could potentially mess up the system if the average cost was site wide without taking into account personal usage as well.

TL;DR - Take into account how many boosts each person is using as well as average site usage when calculating price.


This has been brought up to me and I am open to considering it. However, I wanted to see how this plays out first before making additional changes. I don't want to make too many changes all at once to where it's hard to decipher exactly how each affects the supply and demand.

The reason that the pricing scale is shared is because the nurture search results are shared. Whether one player has 100 Nurture Boosted Pets or 100 players have 1 Nurture Boosted Pet each, it's still a total of 100 Nurture Boosted Pets available. Those 100 pets, regardless of however many owners own them, offer the same amount of amplified rewards and clog up the results exactly the same. Thus, the pricing is the same for everyone.

If it's an issue, one thing I may consider is adding in some sort of price increase for those who go over a certain limit of Nurture Boosted Pets at a given time. But, again, I'd like to see how this plays out first to see if it actually is something that's causing issues or not.

The entire goal of all of this pricing stuff is because I want to have a soft control on the amount of available Nurture Boosted Pets at any given time. If every player has their own personal pricing, that kinda defeats the purpose and makes that not really an attainable goal.

Additionally, the benefit of Nurture Boosting a pet is fairly dependent on the total amount of Nurture Boosted Pets at a given time - as well as having hundreds of Nurture Boosted Pets at a given time makes Scale acquisition borderline ridiculous with all of the available bonus rewards. That's why the pricing is on a global shared price.
Edited By Krinadon on 2/28/2020 at 12:37 PM.
Electric177
Level 51
Joined: 4/16/2019
Threads: 2
Posts: 96
Posted: 2/28/2020 at 12:34 PM Post #228
This is a really good point, especially considering the major age gaps and playtime gaps there can be between people who have played for a long time versus 8-year-olds who just joined. It can end up reflecting badly on the game to new players if they don't understand or read this post.
Edited By Electric177 on 2/28/2020 at 12:34 PM.
MonarchsReign
Level 70
Trickster
Joined: 10/11/2016
Threads: 7
Posts: 271
Posted: 2/28/2020 at 6:14 PM Post #229
I'm still really of the opinion of using AP as an option at least. Maybe make it a high cost for a bit to help dwindle the supply, and then lower it and or slide it like the other costs. AP is like, the forgotten currency, other than Wardrobe. Even then... It's not used nearly as often as you get it.

I truly think this would be a good optional use for it - as it's not, well, easy to accumulate, and takes time, just like scales. At least, I know I would like a use for it, because I'm sitting on just under 80k of it. For a more casual breeder like me it's a great use of currency that I accumulate through my preferred battling, rather than crying in ADHD while trying to nurture enough to boost one egg. I usually only boost like. Exclusive pets or pets that I know I'll set up for future breedings to help in projects.

This is mostly because I don't see the point in wasting diamonds on it. And scales? Ha! I can't get enough to even purchase like. Philters from the shop. I had the gifts from Winter Fest and... That's pretty much all of my scale savings. What I have left from that. But my AP is growing and growing and well, there isn't enough to do with it.

Personal opinion, mentioned before, but y'know. (As far as I know, I was the first to mention this through Renic bc I was too lazy to find the thread and type thoughts lol)
Somneli
Level 70
The Perfectionist
Joined: 1/9/2016
Threads: 80
Posts: 2,726
Posted: 2/28/2020 at 6:57 PM Post #230
Out of curiosity, if say I boost a pet and then sell it to someone else, will the boost stay up?
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