I like the idea of limiting hatchery space as well, I also like the ideas here where one can exchange a pet for scales or for gold. One thing I was thinking was instead of a Cooldown for males something similuar to whats been mentioned here. Limit how many times a critter can breed in a day, but also maybe a random thing where a breeding fails, I mean not every breeding should be successful IMHO.

Maybe certain pets (the new species, and others like it) could have a higher chance at failure to produce which could keep the rarity of such a pet semi stable?

Sorry in advance for massive post >>

So, I don't really have any solid ideas to add myself, but I wanted to add my support to a couple of ideas, and give my two cents on a couple that I don't see panning out well (or just make me go 'nonononono' internally XD). Pros and Cons, if you will lol. And maybe add a suggestion or two to what's already been thought up.

Breeding Limits:
First, as Squeak said, I don't think this will entirely fix the problem, no matter which limit (or combination of limits) is chosen. If the limits are too lax, the problem will persist immediately, if they're too strict, we run the risk of new players and old alike feeling breeding is just too hard, and if we hit the sweet spot, there's a good possibility of the problem just cropping back up 6 months down the road. A slower over population, but still there.

Breeding Licenses: in theory, this seems like an interesting idea, but I have played games that had similar, and decided breeding just wasn't worth it at all after a few months. Being able to breed only if you continually buy this license makes it tedious and annoying for new players to breed at all, which would certainly reduce the number of pets being bred and put on the market, but I'm pretty sure we don't want to turn Sylestia into a battle game first, breeding game a far second? I mean, I enjoy the adventuring side of Sylestia, but I came here for an awesome breeding game, first and foremost. Adding a license you must pay each time to use makes this core feature way too 'pay to play' in my opinion.

However, permanent breeding licenses linked to an achievement system would be a much better implementation, I think. Games I've been on that did a variation of this, where you can breed a few pets a day until you do X encourages experimenting with breeding in the early stages, getting you used to the feature, but doesn't allow you to flood the market. As you hit the achievements, you gain larger 'licenses', until you have freedom to breed like we have now. If the achievements are linked to responsible breeding practices, like are outlined in another idea, then by the time you have open breeding, a player will, hopefully, have the idea of what is desirable to other players and what sells fairly well.

Limited Hatchery: Right now, it's possible to have 200+ pages in a hatchery. I've seen these hatcheries, and just looking at them gives me mild anxiety XD That might be because I like to personally hatch each pet I breed, so the idea of 20 pages of eggs or more makes me worry about doing anything else at all that day XD Anyway, whether changing the hatchery to work more like the stables (one hatchery with many tabs), or just unlocking more pages for a hatchery similar to the one we already have, I don't see too many problems. Of course, I also don't see it curbing the low-priced pets that never sell, either. If hatchery limitations were implemented alone, people might just breed to their hatchery limit, set the pets for 1g, and cry that they weren't selling, just as it happens now. There might be fewer of these pets, but it really would just be a slowing of the problem, not a solution. Still, I do think having unlockable hatchery space would be a plus. Add in Krin's long ago idea that pets move from the hatchery to the stable at adolescence instead of adulthood, and the hatchery stops being 'free' stable space for nearly a month.

Vet Fees: Not sure how these would help, other than being a pure gold sink. You'd want them to be low enough that new players want to experience breeding and project runners don't feel the price to breed outweighs the results of their breeding. If it costs a lot to breed, end result prices will go up, but if the gold sink is very efficient, there will be no gold to buy those more expensive end result pets. However, if the fee is low enough (say 100-200 gold per breeding), I don't see a huge hue and cry over it. It's basically the same as feeding an unconscious pet to breed with it, which many of us do regularly anyway. Basically, I see this working out as a small gold sink, not really helping with the overpopulation issue.

Male breeding cooldowns: I still think this isn't that bad an idea. Females already have a cooldown of several days, why not have males have shorter cooldowns, especially if they get multiple cooldowns? I'd certainly like that base number to be higher than 3 (maybe 5? 8?), anyway, something that works for project runners and doesn't hinder us doing what we do, but stops someone from breeding all 500 of their females to a single male for 1g each. Of course, there's nothing stopping them from finding more males to breed to and make this happen anyway, but in conjunction with hatchery limitations, I could see it helping a bit, especially if the hatchery 'opens up' through certain achievements. (Also, would like to reiterate that if males do get cooldowns like this, there should be a way to separate personal and public breeding cooldowns. Whether I can designate 2 of my 8 cooldowns for public, or just have a reflected number available for personal and public. I just want to know there will be breedings available for the owner when they want them, but not make owners feel they need to keep their pets off public breeding to ensure that.)



Pet Exchanges:
This sort of idea has had my support for a long time. I'm one that gave up trying to sell project fails a long time ago because they rarely sell for what I know they're worth, and then I end up with a stable full of pets I don't want or need and have to deal with them then (because I'm terrible and don't name everything, so I can't set my hatchery to release unnamed XD). This being the case, I have released 13,685 pets to date, and I'm not even on the high side for project runners XD

Sanctuary: As I understand this concept, this is a place that acts relatively the same as releasing (pet goes there and cannot be bought/had/adopted/whatever by other players). They also cannot be bought back by their previous owners the way a released pet can. These pets, in essence, could be largely wiped from the database, leaving just the pieces needed for lineages. If that's possible, it might be nice for server load in the future. But anyway, how it pertains to the current problem: if this is going to work, there has to be some kind of reward attached to giving pets to the sanctuary. These rewards would both be the reason you can't buy the pets back, and the reason to put a pet in the position of never being brought back. I liked a lot of Squeak's suggestions on rewards for this sort of feature, and also agree that any rewards gained from this should be untradable. This stops people from using the feature to gain fast gold selling the items gained, and encourages more people to use the feature to get a chance at these exclusive items themselves. I especially like the idea of items you would want more than one of, like special philters and disruptors that are only available using the feature. Whether the different sylesties count as different amounts of tokens to purchase things at a special store, or there's just a random chance of getting better items for certain types of sylesties on certain days (like pets with a visible G2 are luckier today, or green vulnyxes give more points today), I think this would encourage people to get unwanted pets out of their stables. Also, if you think you might want to buy that pet back (like 2v4c project pets that might be good for a restricted disruptor in the future, or a tagged pet that just won't sell), just release it like normal and you can still have it back for 50 diamonds.

Price Floor: This is a little tricky, specifically for pet trades. I'd love to see a price floor for public sales, but for player to player sales, I'd like the 1g option to still be available. Now, the danger with a price floor is that you could still have 'dishwater' pets flooding the market, but now they're all listed at 5,000 gold (or whatever the floor is) instead of 1 gold. Doesn't really get rid of the initial problem, just makes the problem more expensive for releasing groups to try to manage. Still, if some of the other ideas can get the initial problem taken care of, this might be a nice addition to get prices back in a good place?


Informational/Other: Honestly, I hadn't thought about informational solutions before seeing SheVampire's idea, but I kind of love it!

Tutorials/Achievements: As an MMO player, I am a sucker for achievements. I live for them. Having a list of things to do, like the festival task lists, makes me want to do them all so bad XD If there are rewards associated with the achievements, all the better. In the case of this suggestion, it potentially brings together so many of the things we've been talking about. Having tutorials on breeding, getting visibles, creating projects, choosing colours, infertilizing pets, breeding for stats, etc, then having achievements linked to going through the tutorials, then actually *doing* each of those things, with rewards directly linked to the achievements (like "breed your first pet" unlocks "beginner breeder's license" and "1 page beginner's hatchery", and "breed a 1 visible sylesti" unlocks "Special Trait Days" at the Sanctuary) would only make this more appealing to most, I'd assume. (I know it makes me want to do them XD) There could even be item rewards linked to the achievements, like the original genetic testers (that newbies are always scrounging for), or small amounts of diamonds to get them going on purchasing the exceptional genetic tester. These are just some of the ideas I had after reading She's post and getting ridiculously excited about it XD

Releasing Contests: in the meantime, while other options are being considered, worked out, and coded, I really think more releasing contests are needed. Since releasing contests only allow pets born up until a certain day to be released for points, they really only take care of the extreme backlog of low-priced pets, and more are just subsequently bred. Having more, or even near-constant, releasing boards would curb this slightly, and would give incentive to release one's own low-priced, unwanted pets, and give the diligent releasers of Sylestia some kind of reward for their efforts in cleaning up the game's economy. (Of course, this wouldn't stop the incredible mass breeding going on, but it might stop those mass bred pets from flooding the market while a solution that *does* stem the flow a bit is figure out.)

And... those are my thoughts thus far XP I know, hardly anything of my own added, just my thoughts, opinions, and ideas on what has already been put forward >> Sorry lol

I would suggest maybe a NPC that would buy out the cheap pets and give awards instead. (Just as Frelioan stated)
Or possibly get rewards for releasing
Or as xiKnight stated in a private chat how have the right clicky thing like how we sell inventory items?
Hm just ideas which I may go into later
I do not mind a cool down on males but I doubt it would help as much.

I don't really have any new ideas to add, but I did want to comment on some of the ideas being put out.

I really don't think increasing breeding cooldowns or limiting pet breeding is going to fix the mass breeding. It will very negatively effect those of us who breed for specific traits or stats. I owe my vul and vorpa 120 mana projects to one or two males with 120 mana that had been set up for public breeding. If I had been limited to how many times I could breed with those males, it is likely I wouldn't have bothered with those projects. I had to breed an insane number of times before the ring was nice enough to give me offspring with 120 mana. People won't put pets up for public breeding either because they need them or they might need them.

The same issue with limiting male breeding comes up with pretty much all of my trait breeding projects. There is always a time where I have one golden male who happens to have a desired trait I need or possibly all of the desired traits. Not being able to breed that male with all of my project females would greatly increase the time for these already time consuming projects and would definitely leave me feeling bitter knowing that this isn't stopping mass breeders.

The important thing to remember is that mass breeders don't care what traits or stats they are passing down, so it won't bother them that they have to use more males to achieve the same results.

I have no issue with limiting hatchery space as long as it isn't dramatically reduced. I have seen several people commenting on starting with only one page. Sorry, but that isn't enough to even do one project. It isn't just the eggs from one breeding you would have in there, but also the hatchlings and adolescents from previous breeding. I have horrible luck with the ring, so I don't just breed once and sit around waiting for those babies to become adult to breed again. I breed my project females every time they are available and replace them once better offspring become adults. If I am forced to only have one or two breeding projects I will very quickly lose interest in this site and leave. That isn't a threat, it is a fact. Noone would notice if I left, but I think it is important to say since I may not be the only one who feels this way.

I would definitely be in favor of having adolescents leave the hatchery as well as being able to release eggs again (especially helpful for 120 mana projects). It would make managing my stable space more challenging, but I could manage.

I am a little concerned over the talk about more gold sinks. I currently make a steady income that helps feed my breeding addiction, but adding more gold sinks (constantly having to buy a breeding license) will mean I won't have the money to buy more pies, greater dyes, prismas, nullifiers, etc. People who hoard money won't be affected by these extra gold sinks because they obviously aren't spending money on breeding in the first place.

I think the release aspect is where the main focus needs to be. Why are people so reluctant to release pets. How can releasing be rewarded or at the very least made less negative. There have been several ideas that sound interesting. I like the idea of releasing giving you something (scales/gold/items), but it would definitely have to be balanced so that you don't end up with people spam breeding just to get the rewards. Items would need to be no trade. Having achievements or tasks that involve releasing would also be interesting to try. I think the people who have issues with releasing are the ones that really need to be involved in that conversation. Obviously I release with wild abandon, so I'm not the best one to ask about such things. :-P

Releasing itself really needs to be less cumbersome, especially from the hatchery. I like to release as I hatch my eggs. Currently when I release a hatchling I don't have the option to go to MY next pet in my hatchery, just to go to the next sylestia that happens to have been bred. This adds a lot of extra clicking to get back to hatching and releasing my project pets.

A tutorial about breeding is a huge YES for me. Most people learn by doing, so being walked through the breeding process I think would be very helpful.

Overall, I love the freedom this breeding site has. I have projects with just about every species because they are all so unique and fun to do. I understand the concerns over the economy, but I really hope those concerns don't end up translating into a more convoluted and even more time consuming breeding process.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth.

There is a lot of people who set pets to 1g ( or realy low price in general) in public sale, witch if not buy to relace often stay there for month. I feel like under a certain prise there should be a limit of time where it can be set for sale, once the time is up the pet shoud eather be remove from sale or just relased automaticly.

It would not fix the overpopulation but at least remove a part of the dishwater pets and help regulating the prices.

I put a huge list of suggestions taken from everything that I've seen and read here:
https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=58004

Better I just post that as opposed to giving another massive wall of text. >.>'

Cross post here:

Suggestion: To tag off the idea of a an NPC market to sell pets to--maybe there can be daily/weekly quests attached to these. For example, one week the king is trying to scout out a new underwater territory, and wants lots of Sylvorpas to do it. So Sylvorpas temporarily sell for more than the other pets during that week. Another example might be an NPC breeder (!) is trying to find a Qitari with the Leopard trait, so the player can accept a task to give them one Qitari with a Hidden or Visible Leopard trait (more for the Vis).

Cons: Albeit this might encourage more "trash breeding" as players try to meet the demands...

Pros: ...but I figure it would also provide a little flavor, and make pets "released" in this manner seem like they might be going to a home that wants them.

Suggestion: My other suggestion is to make the inbred stat count for something! Perhaps severely inbred may lead to a decrease in stats, or may incur longer cooldowns in breeding.

Cons: Currently project pets tend to be very inbred, so this might "nerf" a lot of current pets out there. Perhaps they could be grandfathered in as not inbred? Long breeding projects would also become exponentially more complicated as you try to find that perfect match that doesn't lead to inbreeding, though IMO, this part of the challenge of the game.

Pros: This would encourage the sale of wild-caught Sylesties as breeders look for fresh gene pools. This means new players would have something to contribute to the market right away. It may also encourage more cooperative breeding, as the sheer number of Sylesties needed to make a stable breed is pretty large, and maybe more than most owners could handle. So, there would be more use for the "stud fee" feature. I can just see a bunch of players teaming up to comb through certain zones looking for the right pet for a project.

Suggestion: As suggested elsewhere, have a portfolio or sanctuary that lessens the stigma behind releasing. I think this would need two things to work: one, in-world, it should seem like the pet is either happy to go out and adventure in the world, or is going to a good home. Two, I think the player should get to be able to keep some sort of photo album of their released pets. At least for me, I know some of my pets I hold onto because even though their breeding or stats are terrible, I just like to look at them because they're pretty, or are nostalgic (my first rainbow-vomit wild Qitari I caught for instance).

Cons: Could possibly increase server load.

Pros: Could possibly DECREASE server load over the current system depending on what information gets stored. The coloring of a pet is just in the URL, after all. The more obvious pro is that players release pets more often instead of clogging up the lower tier market.

Suggestion: Set up an NPC selling agency that values pets based on pet voting contests. I'll explain how this works... in a pet voting contest, the player could navigate to a page that the server randomly picks two (or possibly more) for-sale sylesties and displays them. The player could choose to buy one of them if they wanted, or they could just click on whichever pet they like best. The more positive ratings the pets get, the higher the NPCs buy them for at the end of a, say, two month period. The page also only displays random pets so that no one can do any sort of "vote-buying".

Cons: Doing this two by two would take a really long time to get through all the pets that are on sale. You might want to consider something like 5 pets, and the player orders them how they like them. I think ordering them in relation to each other instead of just providing a straight 1-10 scale is important though--it gives less-than-perfect pets more of a chance to compete.

Pros: This gives pet sellers a little free advertisement. This can also give players a steady income for breeding, but in ways that encourage good breeding, because how much their pets sell for is a direct measure of how much the playerbase approves of them. Also, Petopia for World of Warcraft Hunter Pets had a similar voting mechanic that I found incredibly addictive even though it had nothing to do with the economy, so this could become a fun part of the game in and of itself, without looking like a maintenance measure..