Welcome, everyone! Make sure to read the first post before posting. :)


Sylestia Group Discussion

Topic:
Community Etiquette


The goal of this discussion is to:

-define, clarify, and discuss the topic at hand, to come to common terms that can be used and related to in Sylestia's community
-share thoughts and opinions on the topic at hand
-connect thoughts and opinions of the community to create a community consensus of the view on the topic
-create a helpful guide or FAQ outline to help other members in the community understand certain topics in Sylestia

Rules and Guidelines for the Discussion:

0. Everyone is welcome! New players, veteran players, players of different ages. I would suggest being able to carry a mature conversation about the topics being discussed.
(0a. Please be on topic. Try to keep derailing (such as personal tangents that don't contribute to the topic) to a minimum, thank you!)

1. Have an open mind, especially for different opinions or criticisms. Try not to write posts in an attacking tone, but also don't be afraid to post your opinion if you feel that it is different from the status quo.

2. Feel free to ask questions! Clarification for any concepts or words used can help clearly convey the topics to others who read your replies. :)

3. When pinging or replying to another player, it's a good idea to say their username in your reply. (i.e. "I agree with you, Bob" or "I understand what Joe's trying to say, but...")

4. No drama, but if an argument ensues from a two-sided topic, let it be a debate that does not intend to hurt one another, but one with defenses and counterarguments for the sides at hand. If it gets heated OR irrelevant, take it to the PMs. (There may be players that feel strongly about going about their site activities in a certain way, and there's nothing wrong with discussing that nor defending that. Discussing it may even help shed light on how players view the game and topics. When aggressive attacking does happen, it may no longer contribute to the discussion, and is in bad taste.)

5. You may suggest different discussion questions than what I have posted! I'll try to add them to the main post as the discussion progresses.

Now, for some discussion questions!

You may use these questions as a starting point for the discussion, then build on each other's replies (agreeing, disagreeing, pointing out things in common, what can be learned from the answers, etc). It may be helpful to include what question number you're answering to in your post (and if you're replying to a certain user, include the user's name and what answer you refer to in their post).

You don't have to answer ALL the questions at once! You can just pick one question or two and answer them accordingly, and answer others later, or include them in your replies to other peoples' answers.

1. What do you expect from the users that participate in the public chats? (Respect? Basic literacy? Manners? Anything not mentioned thus far?)

2. In public chats, such as Region Chat, many users talk at once and the lines of chat quickly progress, leaving some replies by other users to be unread. There are several users who feel that they are ignored in the chat as well, even if the chat isn't as fast-paced. Can you relate to these events? What would you do if it happens to you?

3. When a public chat starts to talk about a topic that you may not feel is appropriate, what would you do? (i.e. ask for a topic change, etc) What do you think is "not appropriate" to talk about in public chat?

4. When it comes to trying to trade/barter pets or items, how often would you advertise it in public chats? Do such advertisements seem distinctly different from begging?

5. When is it grounds to report someone? Do you know how to report a user for misconduct?

6. How do you feel when it comes to participating in forums v.s. public chat (i.e. region chat, general chatroom)? Is there a difference between the two?

[If you have discussion questions that you'd like to add, just ask me to add them!]

-reserves this post, maybe for the FAQ that will come in the end after several replies of discussion-

If you're interested in future topics or would like to suggest overall things for future discussions, let me know on the general overview thread!
This is particularly if you have ideas/other questions (i.e. pet economy, forum etiquette) that doesn't necessarily fit here where it may fit better in another specific topic group!

Pinging everyone for the first discussion!

(because the Festival won't start for 2 weeks, I figure that everyone waiting can have time to discuss the topic without being too distracted...besides designing possible Spring Festival designs or anything time-sensitive site-wide aha)

No rush to answer anything. ^^ Take your time, clearly define what you're writing, etc. etc. Try to make your post easy to read for others to read it, since group discussions build on each others' replies! (Which is what I was trying to go for aha)

The main goal here is to clearly define what the Sylestia Community sees and would like to see with the topic at hand, particularly Community Etiquette. All the answers to the discussion questions should be able to gleam details that would be helpful to a member of Sylestia that is interested or is new to the topic. ^^

I Think what I expect from chat is just be nice. Treat others how you want to be treated in other words. For region chat I have come across a couple times when I wont get a question I asked answered because they will be chatting it up about some random off topic discussion. On that note if it was not that an important question I just forget about it and continue on with what I'm doing or I will ask again when the chat quiets down. At that point it does get answered so you know you are not being ignored it's just to lively in chat. If i felt a topic being discussed was inappropriate I would ask politely for it to be changed. What I deem inappropriate discussions would be about your personal life or trash talking someone else. Basically anything that should be discussed in private not out for the world to see. For trading/bartering pets or items i never advertise in public I always go to the forum. I wouldn't call anything begging until they get really pushy about their item (ex. please please can someone buy this so i can have money for my next stable tab or etc.) I think the best time to report someone is when they are harassing you even after you ask them to politely to stop. I assume if you want to report someone you go to Krinadon or Faiona. How i feel with forums is people will see it on their own time they don't have to be in the room to see it unlike public chat. I think you would get more sales and your point across in a forum more than a public chat.

(think that answers all the questions :D)
edit: First one to start the discussion woot :P

I like to get all my initial thoughts on the questions out in one post, so excuse the length of this one. I will try to keep my answers as concise as possible, and hopefully they will help spark some discussion around the points.

1. The biggest thing I expect from other users in public chats is respectfulness and treating each other with basic decency. Basically, don't be mean or rude -- as Kittenroar said, treat others the way you'd like to be treated. Manners are nice, but they can vary from place to place and culture to culture, so you may see different approaches to public chats from different people.

Literacy, spelling, grammar, etc. can be difficult for some to stick to when in a chat because you want to get replies in quickly, while they're still relevant to the conversation, so I understand that will slip a bit when compared to forum use. Also, it's easy to get distracted doing other things on the site and miss an error or a poorly written sentence. Give people the benefit of the doubt when in chat, and if you really don't understand what they wrote, politely ask them to clarify for you. Sylestia has a wide range of age groups on it, and people from all over the world, so there is going to be a lot of variation in where people are at with their English skills. We don't want to make people feel like they can't join in on the conversation for any reason, least of all how well they write.

2. As Flute states, the chats can move quickly, especially if you're also absorbed in the game while chatting, so it can be easy to miss a reply from someone. I would say that everyone should try to remember this, and not automatically assume that they're being ignored if nobody responds to their reply. Sometimes 3-5 conversations are going on at once in the little Region Chat box, and it can be difficult to follow.

If you feel like you've been ignored, stop and think about whether there might be a reason behind it. Is it festival time and the chats are just too busy? Is a dynamic event going on, taking people's focus away from chat? Is it suddenly quiet -- is it possible that people may have turned chat off to focus on something else, or walked away from the computer? Was your reply completely unrelated to the current discussions -- is it possible that you were interrupting? Were you posting something inappropriate, begging, or spamming?

I know that I personally felt ignored a few times in the chats, especially when I was new to the site. But I realized that often I was joining in the conversation when a group of friends who often played together was having a discussion. Sometimes it just takes a while for people to get to recognize your name in the chat and start a proper conversation with you. Don't be disheartened by this -- try to integrate yourself into a discussion that is already going on, and make some relevant replies. That way the other folks in chat won't assume you're trying to derail the current topic of conversation. If there's a lull, use that to bring up a new topic and see how people respond.

3. I'm pretty laid back and for the most part don't take offense to topics of conversation, but Sylestia is an all-ages site, and therefore the general tone of conversation should stay in the PG realm -- definitely no more than PG-13. So if you want to talk about something more violent or racy, keep it to PMs with your friends or move it to another website. Keep your language clean -- don't swear or write lewd or nasty things -- because there are kids on the site, and even older folks who don't appreciate "bad" language. Most other topics, even political ones, can be discussed if everyone is respectful, and if debates get heated, someone should suggest that the topic be dropped or moved to PM.

The most successful technique I've seen people use in chats when something inappropriate or uncomfortable comes up is just to clearly ask for a topic change. If you think the discussion about something shouldn't be in public chat, don't shame the folks participating or be rude to them, just politely ask them to talk about it elsewhere. Even just stating "Hey guys, I'm not liking this conversation" can often be enough for people to get the hint, so don't be afraid to speak up if the chat is making you uncomfortable -- chances are at least one other person feels the same.

4. As for trading/selling pets and items in chats, there are some "unspoken rules" that people seem to abide by. Usually this comes up most in festivals, in the region chat. Someone encounters a themed pet they don't want, and asks if anyone else is interested. Then generally one or more people will respond, and they may begin bartering. If only one person is interested, I think it's best to move it out of chat -- nobody needs to read all your haggling, so send the person a message and let them know you PMed them. If nobody responds the first time, and chat is moving quickly, it may be appropriate to send a second message out asking if anyone is interested before you finish the battle. If nobody responds to that, assume there isn't any interest and stop posting about it.

As for non-festival situations, or for pets you've already caught or items you already have, it's probably better to stick to the forums for selling and trading. The best tactic is actually to wait and see if anyone mentions the fact that they're looking for "X" item or pet, then responding if it is relevant. Maybe you could post once in the chat asking if there's any interest, but do not keep going on about it.

That's the major rule of thumb: don't spam about whatever you're selling. Such advertisements can be completely different from begging -- it's just a matter of tone. Don't plead with people to buy something from you. Check to see if anyone is interested, and drop it otherwise.

5. Reporting someone should be done if, as Kittenroar suggested, you have asked them to stop a certain behaviour which is harassing or upsetting, and they do not. If they keep on doing it without apology, that is certainly grounds for reporting. Whether you or someone else is the target, they need to be reported for any behaviour which breaks the site rules or is endangering for anyone.

I don't think I personally know how to report someone directly from the chat, but copying and pasting the chat history (or even a representative portion of their messages) into a PM or email to the Sylestia admins should do the trick. If you see something inappropriate on the forums, you can feel free to hit the little "red flag" button at the bottom left of a post, which will allow you to report it.

6. The chats being more fast-paced than the forums means that misunderstandings can happen more easily, so you need to respond to them quickly and give people the benefit of the doubt to avoid hurt feelings. Also, you may be able to discuss a wider range of topics, especially complex ones or hot-button issues, in the forums. If someone isn't interested or doesn't like it, they can just avoid reading that topic. In chats, people can't get away from a current topic of discussion unless they close off the chat, which is essentially like chasing them away, and not a nice thing to do! So keep the chats as friendly and approachable as possible.

Touching on the topic of begging: I think it should also be mentioned that it's disruptive to pop onto general chat just to dump a link/request on there and then disappear. It looks suspiciously like spamming, where you have a copy/pasted item you're just dumping wherever it looks like there are people and not joining the discussion at all.

I'd agree that the forums are a better place to advertise, because then people have the ability to choose whether or not to enter the forum to see said advertisements.

There could be exceptions, however, if you are in the general chat and having an active discussion and you ask someone(s) if they are up to helping you with someone (nurturing, rehoming, etc), but in general I (personally) think that should be restricted to personal chat/personal messages or the forums.

Is there a report someone here form somewhere? Or a thread? That's a good question, actually.

5. When is it grounds to report someone?
Report someone if:
- ToS is broken.
- You can't deal with the situation yourself.

5. Do you know how to report a user for misconduct?
Yup! It's the red flag. People should really use the report button more.
Edit: My guess is you can also PM the admin if it is something chat related. Perhaps with a screenshot.

5. Further Discussion
One the things that bugs me most is when users go and bash a user for misconduct.

I've seen this happen and it always looks bad, Because:

1. Sometimes, the user didn't do anything wrong! The person bashing for incorrectly thinking misconduct looks horrible and misrepresents the Sylestia community.

2. They perhaps didn't know they were doing something wrong.

3. Even if they did something wrong, it doesn't mean they should be told personal insults. Life doesn't always have to be an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Especially in minor cases like these.

Pointing out misconduct is okay, and can be very very helpful! Just remember to do it stylishly.
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2. In public chats, such as Region Chat, many users talk at once and the lines of chat quickly progress, leaving some replies by other users to be unread. There are several users who feel that they are ignored in the chat as well, even if the chat isn't as fast-paced.

There's really only 2 reasons why no one replied,
(1) People missed the message and didn't read it.
(2) The people currently in the chat read it and aren't interested.

In the case of 1,
They are not ignoring you on purpose, so there shouldn't be a reason to get upset at them. Just retype your message again. (Not to the point of spam though lol)

In the case of 2,
Lets say you wanted to talk about cats. Perhaps the users in the chat don't have an interest in cats. But I assure you there are other people who do. It's just that your interests don't match. The people in the chat are a small subset of the users on Sylestia. And a very small population of the people on Earth. Try going to the forums. If not there, there are other outlets to talk about things that interest you.

2. Can you relate to these events? What would you do if it happens to you?
Of course it doesn't feel great to not get replied to, but there are ways to deal with such a thing. ^.^'

If I feel it's important I'll retype it. If I do and there is still no reply, I'll assume that the people in the chat are not interested and will go to the forums instead. If it is not important, I won't do anything about it, and move on with the chat.

1. I expect respect and tolerance from anyone using the public, (And private,) chats. If you don't think you can get along with someone in the chat at the time, either hover in chat and input when you think you can manage niceties, or just exit chat all together.
Then the basics--Try and use as much grammar and proper spelling as possible. I understand sometimes chat moves reaallly fast, but try your best? (I'm horrible about grammar I just...yeah.)

2: Chats can move fast, and if you get missed then you get missed, in my opinion. I've had it happen a few times, and I generally just shrug it off because it is easy to get caught up in one or two persons replies, or just try to keep up with a fast-paced chat conversation. I've asked questions and had people just overlook them the first, third, fifth times and while it can be frustrating, people are allowed to have whatever conversations with whoever they desire in the public chats.

3: Asking for a topic change or just meandering to the shadows for a while have always been my go-to's. I try to keep my conversations PG, but sometimes a few gory facts of my job or the games I like to play, (Horror games are the best,) sneak past me. If someone asks me for a topic change and someone else desires to continue our conversation, I tend to just move the conversation to a more private location.

4: I don't personally mind a few advertisements, I like checking out the various pets or items being offered. And there are a few unspoken rules within public chats, as ColenelHazard said, that we tend to pick up on fast and just go with.
But advertisements are not begging, and when begging hits I generally just want to get out of there. I have, a few times, given into begging and I generally just ended up cheating myself out of gold or diamonds because the player "Forgot" or wanted to buy this one pet and I'm to nice of a person to become an angry loan shark so I just...bye bye money.

I really don't go into chat rooms all that much due to my own shyness. But so many chats tend to be, well, unwelcoming to newcomers or to people that want a nice, friendly place to chat or to watch other people chat. Judging by the responses here, that may not actually be the case for Sylestian chats, which is amazing and wonderful.

As for what I would be looking for in chats, well, most everyone has already covered it. Politeness, grammar and spelling as best as a person can manage, and a willingness to move on from topics if someone says they're uncomfortable. Personally, I'd also say that if you wouldn't say it to a complete stranger, then it doesn't need to be said at all in a public area lilke a chat room. However, that is probably my own reticence than a rule or guideline that everyone would be comfortable with.

One thing, as a newbie, I would like to add, is that it's sometimes very difficult to just 'join in'. While I've yet to encounter this problem on Sylestia, other games I've played in the past were unwelcoming to downright hostile to new players trying to join chats or already-formed forum threads. It's really easy to see the new person as an interloper trying to grab attention and ruining the fun everyone else is having with friends they already know, that's just human nature, really. I just want to remind the folks who've been around longer to make a little room for the new person and reserve judgment until after you get to know them a bit. Again, I don't see that this is really a problem for Sylestia, but it still is kind of important enough to mention.

Being overlooked is never fun, but it happens so easily in chat rooms that are fast paced. Frankly, if it isn't important enough to interfere with my gameplay (ie, where do I go for X, what does Y mean, I can't find it in the forums), then I'd just let it go. People might not be interested in my posts, and I don't want to be rude and force someone to respond to me.

Begging is inappropriate in any format, of course. I personally start to look at posts as begging in either forum or chat when they pop up almost every time I look at either place. I would rarely advertise in chat unless it is a pet or item rare enough that someone might want it right away. Even then, I'd say no more than once an hour would be sufficient. I prefer advertisements on the forums though. It's easier to find them and then peruse interesting offers at my leisure.

Oof...reporting people. I'd love this never to be an issue. Realistically, if I saw something egregious enough to report, then I'd either send a message straight to the admins (with screencaps to back up my assertions) or use the little red flag thingy on the forums (again, possibly with screencaps). After that, I'd distance myself completely from the situation. It's not mine to handle and I'd rather just let those responsible take care of things.

Okay, I'm starting to get a little too long-winded I think. Time to stop and let someone else have the floor.