Let me preface this by saying I don't know what the numbers actually are, though I would very much like to know.

Currently I am sitting at 7 (I think) vexxar defeats, 2 rikkis, 2 held drops (one of both of which is the guaranteed first reward).

Considering these rewards are supposed to be a 'worthy balance' when sometimes I walk away with literally nothing is a slap in the face for multiple attempts a week at a 300+ turn battle. I spend hours clearing the MASSIVE crypt map, another hour or so per attempt at the boss, all for... oh. A bad rng roll. The 4th week in a row. A worthy balance... of nothing.



Since the crypt/vexxar is endgame, replayable content, you want it to be a balance of engaging/rewarding. At the moment, it simply is not.

I'm not asking for a guaranteed rikki drop a week. I'm asking for a more consistent worthy balance and/or an increased drop pool and/or a rate up for these rats.

"But it will flood the market!" No. It won't. 6 or 7 people have beaten him so far - ~1 per month the crypt has been active. I'm not sure how many are actively trying, given the small playerbase size and daunting challenge the temples as a whole pose. The amount of people I've seen say they simply won't try because it's too much gold/time/etc investment is certainly a lot higher than the amount of players gung ho about beating the temples.

As of today, the numbers for 1st gen rikkis are as follows:
Faerina - 4
Malgorus - 8
Raith - 2
Saphryn - 1
Vaeluna - 8
Wruen - 5

If you're concerned about market flooding, balance the drop rates of the 6, not throttle their rates.

Here are some of my suggestions:
- rate up for rikkis/drop rate in general
- drop more than one SW equip (every time)
- chance of dropping 1 primo equip
- pity system (if you've gone x attempts without a drop, next week is 100% drop rate for that item)

Despite its flaws I do dearly love this game - the breeding, battling, and progression mechanics are, dare I say, the best in the field, but the rewards and drop rates are a glaring flaw.

Minor suggestion, perhaps a pity system of some sort, where if you go x amount of clears without a drop you get a guranteed? or just increasing rate every clear until a drop, to mitigate the chances of going months without anything, which at the current presumed rikki rate of 1/4, is entirely possible and quite demoralizing considering the amount of time it takes to get to and clear vex each week, just to get rewards that aside from the quintessence, are essentially the same as any other temple boss.

Possible pity system:
Assuming the current rate is indeed roughly 1/4, perhaps go 1/4 for first clear, 1/3 for second, 1/2 for third, and gaurantee on the fourth, resetting after a rikki drops

Additional Note:
There's also the fact that even if you do get a drop it might not even be worthwhile, for example getting a rikki theme you don't want or abysmal stats on it, or a dupe held. That combined with the low odds is just really unenjoyable. Raising the rates or giving a pity system doesnt even seem like it'd be super impactful as there are numerous people who have explicitly stated multiple times they have 0 interest in progressing the grove, be it due to the massive cost, time investment, or simply not enjoying battling and preferring projects. Like Hira said the number of people who have cleared crypt is very small, and the number of people who seem close small as well. I myself cleared it for the completionist aspect in terms of battling, and knowing the rates being what they are can acknowledge it is a much more efficient use of resources for things like projects to not invest into grove past T1 and just buy a breeding to someone elses first clear rikki. For projects i'd have been better off buying a rikki breeding with how my first clear one rolled statswise, and with the odds being what they are, my gold/time invest into grove looks unlikely to pay off. IMO you should be garunteed at least /something/ after 4 clears, waiting a month to get anything still feels terrible with the amount of time it takes to get there but at least its something to look forward to and a reason to keep running attempts

Ah, I knew I was forgetting something! I'll amend that in the main post.

A lot of heavily rng-based/gambling games do have pity systems. I'm honestly not sure why sylestia doesnt when it comes to those things. :'D

So... not sure how much weight my opinion carries since I'm still back in temple two (admittedly, I am not the biggest fan of the LG slog overall), but I can say that seeing the drop rates of what is supposed to be the mega, epic reward for battling my way endlessly to the end are so low... it does not make me want to progress.

It takes so much time, effort, and resources just to get to Vexxar, never mind beat him. Do I really want to sink all of that into a slog that might drop me something good once every month or two? Definitely not. I'd rather drop those same thousands of hours and millions of gold into breeding projects, which I can reliably achieve. At this point, my only reason to even try progressing through a couple more temples is to get more chances at themed nests, but I could just make temple one endless and have a chance at the same thing.

So, other than just wanting to challenge myself by smacking into a wall over and over, I don't see much point in trying to get to the very end. The endless grinding with very low, rng-gated drops is certainly not fun to me. And this is from someone that would grind for hours on end in WoW when I played. Yes, certain items had a low drop rate, but there were always cool things that had a much higher chance of dropping, and useful items to make other things I wanted, that made the grind worthwhile. In the LG, most drops are for building up the barracks or creating/upgrading gear, which mostly is geared toward just making the grinding a little easier, rather than giving actual cool things to use outside the LG. It's just.... not fun to me.

All that to say: the abysmally low drop rate of cool rewards for actually completing the most difficult content of the game does not encourage me to want to try to get there myself.

I'm going to put my two cents in (which are pretty much worth nothing since I haven't even done half of stage 1 in the LG for other reasons) but I honestly hate the grind. I can deal with some grind (I've played many games that require grinding) but usually, the grind is at least fun. I can't say the same for the lost grove. I'd rather do breeding projects because at least I know and understand how to do that and I can complete them without as much effort. While projects do require some effort, yes, I would MUCH rather do them then doing 300 of the same turn over and over and over again. It just makes me want to bang my head against my table quite a few times.

I have been saying this for years, especially when avatar drop rates changed for festivals. The game is not rewarding. I said it. I've said it before, I'll say it again. The game is not rewarding.

This is coming from someone who has pretty much everything they want in the game and has the ability to get whatever they want in the game. It's not rewarding. I'll explain why.

The game is grindy. Everyone knows that and I know Krin is also aware of that. There are plenty of grindy games out there too, it's nothing new. A lot of games work off of working super hard to earn your materials and items. I get it. I have played a lot of MMOs, including one of the grindiest games there is - RuneScape. I've played RuneScape for 20 years on and off. I've also played Diablo, another incredibly grindy game. The difference with Sylestia is there are next to no rewards for your grind.

First off, the LG is insanely grindy. There are great rewards if you work super hard. But it's all RNG and there is no pity system in place. You can go months without obtaining the gems you need to make and upgrade Stoneweave... which you need in order to progress into the temple.

Second, look at festival items. The drop rates are abysmal and discouraging. I'm missing so many moggy items from Week of Love because nobody could find the messengers. I am really curious to know what items are missing in the game, or have such a horrible drop rate that there are maybe 10 in the game entirely. I'm pretty sure it was fall fest where I asked Krin about a particular item and he said there were something like 11 in the game... and the fest was almost over. To me that is super pathetic. How is that rewarding at all? We sit here and grind for hours and hours and sometimes I go 3-4 named runs completely dry. You can not tell me that this is rewarding gameplay.

Third, those freaking haunted house and winter wonderland minigames during fall/winter fest. Those are the most annoying gambling games I've ever been forced to play. I say forced because the drop rates of avatar items in those games is so freaking bad that I won't get the items any other way. Again, I'm someone who can get what they want in this game no problem... except when RNG is involved. If no one is able to find these items I can't even buy these items from others! Which I have been told a few times by Krin, "Just look at the broker." I will no longer accept that response to the horrible drop rates because nothing is on the broker. Nothing will ever be on the broker if people can't find the items.

Fourth, I've beat Vexxar twice now and both times I got a ferrikki... but I can 100% understand the frustration of battling him and getting nothing. That sounds absolutely horrible. At the very least drop a completed avatar item (not just the quintessence to make an item for 100K). Or drop primordial. Drop something. Spending hours on end to reach the end game should be rewarding and right now it isn't. I know a lot of people who look at LG and say, "No thanks," because they know it's just not worth their time.

I continue to grind and play this game because I've been playing these types of games for over 20 years. This game is also unique in its genre and I love the features it has. I love the pet breeding and customization as well. It's a unique game... but almost nothing about it feels rewarding.

Eventually people aren't going to have fun anymore. They leave. I've been here for 9 years. I've seen so many people come and go. So many of the vets are gone forever, partly due to lack of new content or lack of dynamic gameplay. I also understand Krin is revamping the site, especially the exploration and battle systems. I eagerly await what he has in store for us because by the sounds of it it is less grindy.

mm, Vexxar's prizes are, a little eh maybe?
I've now beaten him 9 times (which... doesn't seem right? I'd swear I'd beaten him closer to once a week since we first managed but apparently not??

I've gotten:
5 rikkis (three of which are Malgoruses, thanks rng, but it's a somewhat decent drop rate on my end at least I guess?)(also, wow the fact that there's only one Saphryn total but 8 Malgorus and 8 Vaeluna, geez, rng, what did Saphryn do to you to deserve this?)

5 helds (2 unique familiars and 2 unique swords, and one repeat familiar) (4 out of, what, 18? avatar items he can drop?, and this is despite the fact that he can drop two of helds in one battle!)

A bunch of Orbs (that I don't need really, but fine, I reasonably have a use for them if I upgrade more gear for my secondary team)

Ancient Grove Cores and Ancient Temple Bricks (which I Really don't need. Is anyone fighting this guy not already finished with the barracks? Surely just getting as far as him would take most people long enough to get the supplies needed to build them? Maybe my perspective as a person who has been in the temple since it came out has skewed my view? But I know I wouldn't want to fight him without three of the buildings maxed anyway)

Equipment disc/mold/clasp (*shrugs* average, I don't use enough to need more, I have to sell clasps off sometimes as is, because of the low cap on them. Why IS the cap on these so low??)

Quintessences (these are used for. something other than keeping track of wins? ... avatar items, ah. I'm not invested in the Outfits really so I'll continue using them to track my wins)

Random Stoneweave gear (I am Overflowing with most types at this point from all the other bosses)


Pity system for rikkis/helds might be good? I don't see a problem with having one added in the least


It might be fun if he had a drop slot (in place of cores/bricks?) where there was a chance he could drop a rikki-tier non-vex grove theme egg or something?
I dunno, I'd be more invested beyond my drive against challenge if there was a chance I'd get an IS vorp with lovely bonkers + stats out of it. (maybe even any grove theme, not just temple themes? The only way the non-temple themes can get +40 grove stats is if people are lucky enough to find a leg/myth of the theme, and some of the non-temple themes are very nice.
Actually even if the Potential Egg had leg/myth tier stats rather rikki-tier, I still think it'd be neat?)

I think those are some good ideas with the extra drop slot. From what I understand egg + held will drop at the same time, which makes it feel worse since you can't get one without the other and they're both equally bad drop rates. It feels.... weird? to have them be linked drops (if they are, not that I have a lot of data to go off of LOL).

Also, love how the quintessence is the only guaranteed drop... and it costs you to use it. xD Makes sense, with the grove being the giant well of gold sinks it is, but kinda feels like a light slap in the face. 'here, you beat vexxar? no rikki/held, but have this item part you need to pay to craft. ha ha, sucker.'

Everyone else who's beaten him seems to have better luck with the rikkis than I, it seems :p Krin, did you lower my drop rate???? /joke

Going based on what Scath said a big problem with Vex drops is just how useless almost all of the guaranteed ones are for people who have actually beaten Vex are. Grove mats just arent needed by that point, and unless rng decides to be kind for once you get left with stuff you could've gotten off of every other temple boss, huge let down for a boss that is leagues above the others in terms of difficulty and investment needed to clear. The only drops that could have any legitimate value for the player themselves instead of as sale value are the quintessence, which the 100k gold cost on top of that kinda hurts since you're stuck sinking even more gold after making the huge invest just to get there, rikkis, and avi helds. It would be nice to see Vex drop the good stuff guaranteed on a pity system, Just something to make him actually worth the clear so that you can actually progress towards getting something instead of never seeing anything due to bad luck. At his current state you can clear him every week and get nothing with no way of changing things

the rikki drop and the held drops aren't linked, I can confirm that. Entirely possible to get a rikki and no held or vice-versa