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LDDarcWolf
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Posted: 9/18/2015 at 3:57 PM
Post #21
It's a deturant, most people don't readly approch large unfamilure dogs. I'm not purposly going to be training the dog to do personal protection, the dog will be learning bluff techniques that are commonly taught to dogs that aid in midigating PTSD.
So you think he did nothing wrong?! Triggering PTSD, and panic attack in which I am STILL having nightmares and flashbacks! IF i hadnt come across the employee the guy WOULD have gotten physical with me! I have been heavily vicomized buy men, and I told him to leave me alone 3 seperate times! When some one tells you to leave them alone most people don't actively chase tne person now do they!?
You clearly have NOT read the entirety of the post NOR do you understand how PTSD or Panic Disorder work.
Do you even know what PTSD is?
Edited By LDDarcWolf on 9/18/2015 at 4:02 PM.
TurquoiseGiraffe
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Posted: 9/18/2015 at 5:53 PM
Post #22
I read the entire post. You said he tried to get your attention, you responded by saying "Ewww!" and walking away, and he followed you and continued trying to talk to you. Based on your description, he was rude and annoying, nothing more. Also based on your description, you were rude to him before he'd done anything out of the ordinary towards you. I understand why you might have felt threatened, but do you really believe he intended to assault you in the middle of a crowded Wal-Mart next to the hand sanitizers, with witnesses, bright lights, and video cameras everywhere?
If you think PTSD and panic disorders make "Ewww! Ewww!" an appropriate response to "Hey you!", you shouldn't be criticizing me or anyone else for perceived ignorance on the subject. Regardless, no one should look at a service dog and think, "I'd better not annoy the handler, or she might sic it on me!" People and organizations have put too many resources into combatting that sort of ignorance for you to blithely encourage and exploit it for your own convenience. Service dogs are a tool to lessen the extent to which your disabilities limit your ability to interact with the world. They aren't a tool to modify the behavior of others to make the world more to your liking, and they shouldn't be used or viewed that way. Doing so just makes life harder for those who use their dogs appropriately.
I'm sorry for your issues, but they're your issues. No one can tell by looking that you have them, and it's no one else's responsibility to modify their behavior because normal annoyances affect you more strongly than most. It's completely unreasonable, and an abuse of the ADA, to use an implied threat of 'My service dog might hurt you if you bother me' as a deterrent to stop people from being rude.
LDDarcWolf
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Posted: 9/18/2015 at 6:04 PM
Post #23
You don't get it do you? The dogs presence coupled with the bluff techniques have proven to deture people from approching people with PTSD and Panic Disorder. Additionally where I luve YES people DO get assulted, physically abused, ect IN public REGARDLESS of IF there are a bunch of witness/cameras! People do not care about concequences especially people like that creep!
Again it's BLUFF techniques(and other PTSD related tasks) NOT personal protection that will be taught along with guide, and mobility/ballance assistance. I had my cane in the cart, wich is a pretty clear indecator of my physical disability, additionally he flipping CHASED me in the walmart! IF I had lost grip on the cart I WOULD NOT have been able to get up nor would I have had any assistance, which would have placed me at greater risk for additional injury. I told him to leave me alone, being chased IS NOT a normal responce to being told to leave some one alone.
You have made it clear you do not understand, so please just save us both the time deleat your comments and block me.
TurquoiseGiraffe
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Posted: 9/18/2015 at 11:02 PM
Post #24
If you want me block you, then it's odd that you felt the need to PM me. You can do what you like with your comments, but mine are staying. Someone who thinks it's desirable for the general public to be frightened of their service dog has no business owning one, let alone training one. That's equally true whether your issue is PTSD, visual impairment, or magical sparkling fairy dust coming out your ears.
LDDarcWolf
Level 70
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Threads: 283
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Posted: 9/18/2015 at 11:03 PM
Post #25
I DON'T want fear! I have stated this! I want DETUREMENT!
Ahiyan
Level 60
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Joined: 11/19/2013
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Posted: 9/19/2015 at 12:23 AM
Post #26
Erm...a few things... 'If you want me block you, then it's odd that you felt the need to PM me' - soe people like to take some things off forums instead to talk about it :3 just saying.
Also 'A "service dog," under California law, is a dog trained to help a specific individual with a disability with services such as fetching dropped items, minimal protection work, rescue work, or pulling a wheelchair.' Meaning that it can protect the owner, but you know.. minimally... so intimidating is possible :3
' But dogs can be helpful with PTSD. No, you will never 'forget' but that well trained dog will guard your back, circle around your private space to keep others back. Stand guard when you are weary. Wake you from your nightmares so you can take meds to lower your blood pressure to stop the panic attacks & migraines from high blood pressure. If need be, hold off your attacker till you can get to the gun ! There is a growing trend of service dogs just for PTSD patients.' ---sry I just had my lit exams, so quotes galore!
Edit: 'Also based on your description, you were rude to him before he'd done anything out of the ordinary towards you.' - Yeah erm.... what you might perceive as 'not rude' is different to different people. Did you know that people can walk around wearing 'I'm f***ing special' shirts and about 1 out of 10 people think that is rude? And to the lines behind that about him attacking Ldd in crowded areas... There are such things as daylight robbery, pickpocketing, etc - oh and Heeeeeyyyy Bank robberies! If people can do those things in crowded areas, whats stopping someone from assaulting another in the open?
Also, 'The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the persons disability' - well i'm not versed in law, and I'm taking this from the ADA Revision of 2010 - http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm - but my take on this would mean that with regards to people with PTSD, would be to aid that person in either not getting an anxiety attack (by steering them away from things or keeping things away from them that might trigger and attack) or as the law gives as an example '...calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack'.
So if Ldd's ptsd causes her to get anxiety due to weirdo strangers, the service dog would be allowed to keep her personal space intact, buy like guarding her back and all that, so Ldd's reasoning is ok based on my understanding that she will be training her dog to be not aggressive but to keep objects (in this case, certain people) away from her to prevent an anxiety attack.
Edited By Ahiyan on 9/19/2015 at 12:33 AM.
Ahiyan
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Posted: 9/19/2015 at 12:36 AM
Post #27
Look above? :3 I only thought to ping you just now... sorry :<
LDDarcWolf
Level 70
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Joined: 10/25/2013
Threads: 283
Posts: 4,568
Posted: 9/19/2015 at 12:50 AM
Post #28
That's ok Sol. Thanks for you're very well worded post. It states what needed to be clarified, and will hopefully allow better understanding of how I see/take/react to things due to my mental disability(s).
TurquoiseGiraffe
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Posted: 9/19/2015 at 2:13 AM
Post #29
I don't know what it says now, but her post originally said that the man tried to get her attention by shouting "Hey you!" and she responded by saying "Ewwwww!" Shouting "Hey you!" to get the attention of someone in a crowd whose name you don't know isn't rude in most situations. Responding to that by saying "Ewwww!" is rude in all situations. It's also highly likely to anger the person you say it to, and to cause them to react in a manner you find unpleasant. Someone who is deathly afraid of confrontations with strangers would do well to keep that in mind.
If a service dog's interactions with its handler help the handler to deal with unpleasant social encounters without having a panic attack, great. That's exactly what it's supposed to be doing. If a service dog's interaction with the public helps the handler to avoid unwanted social interactions by intimidating and implicitly threatening those who come too near the handler, that's really, really, pushing the bounds of what it's legally allowed to do. I don't doubt that an improperly-trained service dog can be a very effective deterrent, just as an openly displayed knife or gun would be. I simply don't think that approach is fair to the general public, the dog, or the other handlers who will have to deal with the access problems it's guaranteed to cause.
When someone asks for opinions and suggestions on the internet, they're often going to get some they disagree with or find unhelpful. Someone who's going to be thrown into an emotional tailspin by relatively civil disagreement might want to avoid that approach. My opinion is that expecting a service dog to intimidate people into politeness isn't an appropriate use of either the dog or its associated legal protections, particularly as a knee-jerk response to a situation that was aggravated by the would-be handler's own rudeness. Someone who thinks that opinion is worth what they paid for it is free to disregard it, but I'm not going to apologize because they're traumatized by the mere fact of its existence.
Anyone who wants to continue this discussion in PMs is welcome to do so, but I'm not going to derail this thread any further. OP, if you do get a dog, please do the service dog community a favor and don't encourage people to believe it might harm them if they do something you don't like.
Ahiyan
Level 60
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Threads: 20
Posts: 2,568
Posted: 9/19/2015 at 2:17 AM
Post #30
She's just saying that the dog will ensure no one violates her personal space without her allowing it.... I don't see where it says she's going to get it to harm them, or intimidate them.. mind pointing that out? And to Ldd, sry for derailing thread :3
And I'll PM you further about this? :3 I just want to clear out some things between the both of you ><
Edit: I REALLY need to stop forgetting stuff - I'll only PM you if there's something... wrong....? My choice of words is rather bad...
Edited By Ahiyan on 9/19/2015 at 2:18 AM.
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