Just as an example.

Flight rising, about three or four years ago, added in a new feature. It added different eye types for the dragons, with some of them only available through RNG and breeding outside of an 'only available for three days, then retired forever, random odds with HORRIBLE odds' scatter vial. (and by horrible, you could get the same eye type several times in a row, and it was eventually revealed that new eye types that were breeding only were not going to be available through that scattervial).

This could have been fun, but many people joined flight rising because of the customability, and mutationless aspects of it. In otherwords, they wanted to collect pretty dragons and be able to apply new updates (such as genes and breeds) to older dragons and they didn't want to have to fight RNG to obtain the desired dragon. This update came about 5 years into the sites life, so people had gotten used to the way things worked.

The update could have been fun, but it alienated a huge chunk of the playerbase, and many of those people left or were no longer having the same fun. Some people, due to eye horror issues, stopped feeling like they could breed, because one or two of the types triggered issues for them, and they could pop up randomly and nothing could be done to prevent it.

Fast forward to just a couple of months ago, there were really only a handful of people who were still vocal about the eye update, and suddenly a new update to the eye update dropped. Instead of listening to the suggestions forums there, which had some ideas of how to balance out those who liked the update (or joined afterwords and only knew that update), they just plopped the new eye vials, to apply eyes that were previously only breeding only, into the treasure marketplace.

This caused a new uproar, because those people who had gotten used to, or joined after the first update, were upset, because they felt their hard work at obtaining dragons with those eyes (really only one eye type out of the ones available, because it had the lowest odds) had been invalidated.

Things have settled down now, but this is an example of how different groups of players feel different things are 'fun' and why fun cannot be the only reason for a feature, especially one that affects a large chunk of the website. (this update may also be part of the reason Sylestia has had an influx of people, since I was letting people know that if they liked the challenge of breeding that the eyes presented, they might like sylestia's breeding system)

Look, this idea is fun. You're right about that. But, it doesn't fit on Sylestia. That's not saying this idea is bad, or boring, or useless- it just wouldn't work with Sylestia's comminuty.

We need that 'critical or businesslike mindset' because ideas like these, if implemented, would hurt other parts of the playerbase. I've been on the receiving end of reactions like this. I've had ideas on here that didn't work. But instead of getting upset, I learn from what works and what doesn't and use it to make sure any later ideas I suggest take all parts of the playerbase into account.

No, it never hurts to suggest ideas and it's always worth a shot. You've thought a lot about this which makes it harder to say no support but when it really comes down to it I don't really believe this idea is feasible for Sylestia.

The core argument against this particular suggestion would be your essentially erasing existing pets which isn't something that Sylestia really does. Every pet created has a certain ID# for when it was created, every pet can be tracked whether released, sold or sitting in stables after it has already had one owner. That's one of the appeals to the site and being able to let go of pets on this site, the fact that they still exist and you can revisit them so long as they're still there. They may not have been worth keeping stable space wise but pets you've captured and had a long the way can still be treasured in a sense of being able to look back and see what pets you used to collect and own versus what you have now. You can go into a pet's breeding history and completely trace it back. Fusing these pets and erasing them would break all of that. Imagine wanting to look into one of your pets breeding trees - missing images and links abound - no possible way to track because the Sylesti is just gone because someone fused a pet you sold or maybe even gifted.

Mostly, I really don't want pet tracking to look like Howrse. D: I hate it when pets disappear when you go back to look at them and I can't stand trying to follow a broken lineage only to get no where.

I actually don't mind this idea.
yes, while it could be detrimental to breeders, people still have the option to go to them if they want to play it safe.
The point of this game is basically to have fun and kill time.
You gain/loose nothing in real life (unless you buy diamonds or something), and because of that, very little really matters. Since it doesn't really affect our personal, real lives, fun is the main goal, correct?
Many people seem to forget that, getting too caught up with having the most gold or themed. They get too caught up and suddenly, this fantasy pet breeding/trading game is their life.
"You add a suggestion for fun, and people come in debating on Profit/gain/people's hard work!
It's a GAME. Not your job..", quoted from the op. and they are correct, it's not your job. at the end of the day, what do we gain from putting a bunch of work into the game? (i'm not saying don't play the game, or that the game is bad, i'm simply saying that the game is a good time killer and should not be taken with as much seriousness as it currently is.)
Even if people who start/maintain projects do become rarer, then so be it.
People can still do projects, playing the safer, yet more expensive way. As for the parents aspect, i feel that the newly created pet would be treated as a new, trapped pet, and therefore be able to be bred with what had been the parents/siblings of the two previous pets used. The stats and traits systems should work as the breeding systems do.
though i do feel that there should be a limit to how many pets you decide to fuse into one. The lower the 'fused number' the better the stat/coloration. Themed should be able to be added to a fusion, but have a warning pop up saying something along the lines of "are you sure you want to fuse this themed pet?", similar to how the warning pops up if two pets are too closely related.
Maybe it could require a certain item that you need to find or you need to pay a fee (1k gold or something),
or there could be a philter you can get to undo the fusion.

But, in all honesty, if Krin think's it's a good idea, and they want to add it, let them. That's what it really comes down to, right? I mean, they are the one who codes it, i assume.

The reason people start 'debating on Profit/gain/people's hard work!' is because they find those aspects *fun*.

Just because one person, or two, might find something fun, doesn't mean everyone will. Some people might find it fun, but others might find it takes away from their enjoyment.

Again, using Flight Rising as an example: Flight rising went 5 years and then suddenly added eye variants. These variants could be obtained in two ways: through buying them and applying them to any dragon you wanted, or through RNG by breeding. The RNG ones could not be applied to existing dragons (there was a scattervial with horrible odds that was retired three days after release that could apply those RNG eyes to existing dragons, with the exception of one eye type that was released later).

Many people hated it. They really hated that the RNG eyes couldn't be applied to existing dragons.

Three years later, they released Eye vials for the RNG eyes. Many people loved them, because now their beloved special dragons could have the special eyes. But, the people who loved RNG, or loved the idea that the RNG only eyes made a dragon 'special' as it was only through RNG that those dragons could have obtained those eyes, hated the eye vials. They feel that a part of their 'fun' was taken away, and it was. But, three years earlier, those who liked customizing existing dragons had felt that same way when eye variants were first introduced.

Neither side could see eye to eye (and I did not mean that to be punnish :P) because both had playstyles that relied on opposing concents (customizability and RNG making things 'rare and valuable').

Both sides thought certain aspects of the site were fun, and that they had 'lost' some of that fun when the two updates were introduced.


This is the same way. One section of the player base will think that 'fusing pets' is fun. But, another section of the site will think that it is taking away from their fun. Both sides are right, because fun is subjective and everyone has their own definition.

That is why people oppose this, not because it is a 'bad idea' but because they feel it could take away from the portion of the site *they* find fun.

So... I'm not going to weigh in on the 'fun' or not aspect of this suggestion. Yes, some might find it fun. No doubt. However, the implementation or not of any suggestion is going to depend on a few things:

Is this something that benefits the site?
Is this something that is possible with the way the site actually works?
Does this 'fit' with the rest of the game?

So, first, does this benefit the site? I'm not talking about whether it's fun and people would want to do it, I'm talking about whether adding this would potentially bring more people to the site/make people more likely to buy diamonds (aka support the site monetarily). Remember, this site is Krindadon's (the site's owner, creator, and coder) main source of revenue. This *is* his job. If something drives away the people who *do* buy diamonds and only makes it less likely that people will monetarily support the site, then it's not beneficial. In the case of this suggestion, it is potentially impacting project breeders. Given that most of the diamond shop items are linked to breeding in some way, there is a big chance for serious impact on the site's bottom line. How to mitigate this? Make fusing only possible through a diamond shop item. Still supporting the site, and given that the option is costing real money and risky, only really meant for those who have nothing to lose by doing the fusing.

That brings us to the question of whether the suggestion is actually possible with the way the site works, and in this case, I don't think it would be. As was already mentioned (pretty sure it was, it was a while ago that I read this whole thread), pets have lineages that are tracked by the site. These lineages show the parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents of any particular pet, and you can keep clicking back in the pet lineage to see all the way back to the original wild or created ancestors. Even if a pet is released, they continue to be a part of those lineages. With pet fusing, either those lineages become *very* messy (suddenly the pet has 4 parents, 8 grandparents and 16 great-grandparents!), and they now have many more siblings/half-siblings they can't breed with, or some new mechanism needs to be employed to make this pet like a whole new first generation pet. That latter would really be the only way to make this sort of suggestion feasible at all with the way the pet lineages work, and would likely require both pets being fused to have been unbred to not mess with lineages *they* were already a part of. If that were the route this suggestion took, it would then be down to whether Krin could (or wanted to) code something like that.

So, that brings us to whether this kind of suggestion 'fits' with a game like Sylestia, and honestly I don't really know. There's another game I played called Felisfire where the whole concept of the game is that the players are scientists researching a new world they came to, and it includes the option to extract DNA and splice that DNA onto unborn pets, thus allowing two pets that couldn't normally breed to create a baby with their genes. This works on that site because it fits with the game narrative. For Sylestia, though, I'm not sure how something like this would fit in with the game itself. Maybe it's a magic item? In any case, that would really be something Krin would have to decide, since it is his game.

Personally, I see no need for fusing. It seems like a lot of work, coding, balancing, and risk for Krin when the mechanics of breeding already work quite well. However, if everything is taken into account when making a suggestion like this, and remembering that a game like this not only has to be fun for its players but also has to make money for its creators, runners, and artists (as well as keep the servers actually running), and keeps in mind the feasibility of the suggestion being made, then I'm all for people making their cases as to why they'd like this to be a thing ^.^

just want to say I agree with Mika, but also say that I do feel there is another aspect that should be considered that does tie in with 'fun' (and one reason I was focusing on that is because the OP and another person did). This does sort of touch on the first point about income as well.

'Will this change the tone of the site and potentially drive existing players away'.

Changes on a massive scale will always drive people away, that is the nature of sites. Once it changes to something they don't like they leave.

For game sites, this often ties in with the nebulous concept of 'fun'. If a site changes a mechanic, or adds a new mechanic related to or that will affect the other mechanic, that they find 'fun', they will start reevaluating whether they still find it 'fun' to remain on site. Then the site has to determine whether the new mechanic will bring in more players who feel that it is 'fun' to make up for the ones that left because the site is no longer 'fun' to them.

Put in context of this suggestion: Will there be more people who find fusing pets 'fun', and would be willing to support the site through buying fusing items, to make it worth it to code and potentially chase off players who feel their work is now invalidated, and feel that the site is no longer 'fun' than there would be people who decide that the site is no longer worth their time, and potentially their money (and their clicks)?

Sylestia is a site heavily focused on breeding. More so that pretty much any other site I have seen. There are other things to do other than breeding (hello, I like to dye pets :D), but the focus of the majority of items, and even events, are creating pets for breeding. Every fest there are players who are focused on getting every trait available to a particular species in a particular theme. There are people who like to project breed various themes.

Beyond that, there are people who like to create max stat and super stat. On the thread for the patriotic event, I believe on the first page was someone saying 'yay, now we can have super stats of fabled' because wild bf pets can be found in LG now.

So, breeding is very important to a lot of people on site. Is that number of people greater than the number of people who would find fusing pets fun? I don't know, but judging by the various comments in region chat, the number of items available for breeding, and the comments i have seen on the forums, I have the feeling it is.


Basically, just because something might be found 'fun' to a subset of players doesn't mean that all players will find it fun. If it affects the balance of the site too much, it doesn't really matter how 'fun' something will be, it isn't in the best interest of the site.