My friend and I were arguing about gay and lesbian relationships. My friend claimed that homosexual relationships can only work out if one partner exclusively expresses femininity while the other partner exclusively expresses masculinity. They claimed this is because one partner must be dominant (the masculine one) and the other must be submissive (the feminine one) for the relationship to work out and, if it were any other way, the relationship would completely fall apart. I claim that anyone of any gender and any gender expression can be in a successful relationship, for it isn't "one is submissive and the other is dominant" that makes a relationship true; it is the two partners' personalities, among other, more complicated things, that builds a stable relationship. Of course, after that I was called an SJW and the argument turned ugly... But that is beside the point.

The point is, who do you think is right and why? All that I ask of you when you are commenting is to PLEASE keep the homophobia, name calling, and rudeness out of the picture. People can disagree and talk about why they feel they are right without resorting to being rude and provocative. My friend and I didn't do that, granted, but it still can be done. Also, before you ask, yes, my friend supports gays and is a gay themself, so please don't call them homophobic. Thank you for reading and have a nice day. :)

Also, please ping or PM me. Otherwise, I won't notice you have replied. Thank you!

Well, I'm going to settle in the grey area here. I don't think it can be put as simply as 'there must be a dominant and submissive partner', especially since dominant does not immediately equate to masculine and submissive does not equate to feminine. Appearance wise, I believe the idea that one must be masculine and one must be feminine is completely ridiculous as, like I said, the idea of being masculine or feminine presenting does not tie in at all with whether someone is dominant or submissive.

And then we have to break down what exactly your friend means, discarding appearance, by 'one has to be dominant and one submissive'. Every person does have a leaning, but they can lean different ways depending on the situation. And this applies to heteronormative relationships as well. Take myself and my fiance, as an example. I have a very domineering personality where he is much softer, so within the workings of our own private relationship, I am the more dominant partner even though I'm about as feminine as one can get. However, to the outside eye, he appears to be the dominant partner because I have a much more submissive social personality and prefer to stand quietly with him and let him control the conversation with whoever we're speaking with and only throw in the occasional comment or answer any questions directed specifically at me. And our relationship is strong enough to not only last, but to last through going to college in different states and being apart for so long, which I know is difficult for many people.

So in final answer, I don't really think there's a solid way to answer that, mainly because I've never met anyone who is completely neutral in terms of dominant/submissive personality quirks, even though I do know many nonbinary people who are completely androgynous in appearance. However, I do see two people that are dominant or submissive in similar ways coming into conflict a lot more often than people who match well, so it may be harder for them to make a relationship work, though not impossible.

And the idea of gender appearance being tied to dominant or masculine is just ridiculous. Perhaps, if you're both legal adults, have your friend look into how female-dominant and male-submissive relationships work to showcase that point. The idea that femininity is tied to submissiveness is a social construct of many cultures that has nothing to do with actual biology, and the same for masculine dominance.

I think it could work out either way. There isn't a mathematical thing that decides if a couple does or does not work. For some couples it might take effect in different ways, but I think it just depends on the people.

The other thing is it could be an aromantic relationship where the people in the relationship act more upon friendship love (which could make it less, masculine feminine difference), but where people are not aromantic it could be different. Its hard to explain.

I think it just really depends on the situation and circumstances of the people in the relationship. There's a lot of different types of love, and I think it truly depends who is in the relationship, background, and personality.

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It's kind of like friendship. Some people become unfriended because they just can't stand each other. Others grow apart. Even some people just plain out didn't like the person to begin with, and realized it.

I think that's the way it works^ Depends

I can see WHY someone would think this way...It is very natural for us to think in terms of binary distinctions. I do it all the time without realizing it, (even though I consciously try not to). In fact, our world seems to be built upon on such concepts... In mythologies you see binaries of: sun/moon, sky/earth, good/evil etc. Computers primarily function in binary: 1 and 0, on/off etc. Even in science we see this same kind of binary thinking. It seems to be fundamental in constructing sexual identity: masculine, giver, dominance vs. feminine, receiver, submission. (I don't agree with this) Levi Strauss has a lot of interesting things to say about binary thinking. The point I am making though is that this way of defining seems to be hardwired into all of us.

I do disagree with it, though. Binary distinctions are good to play with, and they can help us understand complex issues (like sexuality). But that is about it; they are not the be-all and end-all of understanding.

Your opponent seems to be assuming (correct me if I am wrong) that sexuality is linked with gender. I.E: Two males that like each other must conform to a hetero-gender view of the world (masculine with feminine). However, if you separate these two assumptions from each other, you can easily see that sexual interest exists independently of gender identity.

In short, you can pick apart someone's perceptual bias all you like, but if they don't see where their perception is coming from, then you're probably not gonna convince them! You cannot make a person see your way, they have to learn it for themselves.

Wow... That is certainly an eye opener. I didn't see it like that... I didn't even try to see it like that, honestly. Thank you very much for posting that; next time something like that happens, I'll try to keep that in mind. Have a lovely day! :)

Huh... That is certainly something to think about. I didn't think aromantic people got into relationships, though... It's worth a Google search! Perhaps I can find an article or something that is about what you're talking about. Anyway, thank you very much for posting this! Have a lovely day! :)

Oh wow... Yes, I certainly see what you are saying there. Unfortunately, like you and a few others have said, there is no exact answer to such a complex question, which is unfortunate... But some questions in life have no perfect answers, sadly. I know this situation was complex, but, before I posted this, I saw it as black and white, which was stupid and close minded of me. Thanks you to you and the two other great people who have posted on this thread, my eyes are open. Thank you for that. Also, I'd like to thank you for including real life examples and for commenting back in general. Have a lovely day! :)

(skimmed the other replies a little, too much to read though OTL)

Anyone can be with just about anyone, and if they put the effort into a relationship and both sides are comfortable with the arrangement, it can be successful. Binary leanings don't affect your ability to be in a relationship.

I think it's just an icky path to go down, it can lead to more rude and gross thought trains, i say this as a nonbinary lesbian who's had to listen to straight guys say stuff about other wlw that made my skin crawl. I...don't enjoy seeing others like me reduced to who's 'dominant'. Can't say much more without breaking ToS.

Also, that kind of thinking exludes polyamorous relationships? I know they're not exactly commonly discussed, but if you have three or more people it's a whole 'nother dynamic that definitely doesn't fit the binary categories! I have a friend dating both a boy and a girl, i can't imagine their dynamics, but tbh it's none of my business, heh.

And if they're bigender, trigender, genderflux...someone's leaning might change day to day.

Edit: now that i think about it, i used to think like your friend, too. I wanted to be the tough, strong, masc one. But that's not me. I'm literally squishy. And i can see myself dating all kinds of female-leaning people, it all depends on if we both put effort into the relationship or not(can you tell, i have past issue with that? heh)