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Forum Index > Off-Topic Discussion > A new Rome
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Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 5/1/2018 at 5:52 PM Post #31
Second point, Solani, Purgatory: so there are three last things: death, judgement, and our final destination. Can't do anything about death, and judgement is less judgement like you think of nowadays and more "Where did you say you wanted to go through your actions in life", so let's move on to the final destinations: heaven and hell. Purgatory is not a final destination.

Here's the thing, though. Hell is the place you go when you decided in life that you didn't want to be with God, you wanted to be like him without him. Heaven is where you go when you wanted to be with God and were okay with accepting whatever he gave you and be grateful. Heaven is perfect and amazing and beautiful and awe-inspiring ... perfection really.

There's only one problem: we aren't. Even if we chose to go and lived that choice out, we are still imperfect and sinful while there is no sin in heaven. It's kind of like going to a white tie event: there's a certain way we need to be to go, and the plain truth is that we don't usually die in that state. So, what do you do for a white tie event? well, you dress up and do the other things you need to do so that you do fit the necessities. But you only do that after you receive the invitation. Another example would be if you were suddenly invited to have dinner with, say, the pope. You can't prepare before because you didn't know, but now that you do you dress in your finest and maybe even put make up on (if you're a girl).

Purgatory is a lot like the preparation for the white tie event or the dinner with the pope. You aren't ready, so you get ready. Praying for people in purgatory is more like helping your friend shop for the perfect dress than bailing somebody who was arrested. Sorry, didn't mean for it to get so long.
Enyo
Level 70
Nature Walker
Joined: 1/19/2016
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Posts: 1,713
Posted: 5/1/2018 at 8:41 PM Post #32
Eastern Orthodoxy is the main religion in a lot of Eastern European countries, from Greece to Russia, and its the religion of hundreds of millions of people worldwise, so I do consider the 11th century schism as a major splitting, even if protestants are more numerous today (but yes, most of the other schisms are minor ones).

A lot of people reject the religion of their family or do not care about it today, so even if you are a craddle catholic you could have chosen to follow a different path but you didn't and you believe in the faith of your parents. I had been thinking when I wrote that you could be a craddle catholic and that in this case 'choice' may not have been the best word to use.

I get what you say with Jeroboam, and I can really see why you would have this opinion about the refom.
It is an interesting comparison because some protestants use the same for Catholics because they have different views about the Saints and the Pope. It shows that both are very similar yet they could not easily be reconciled.
I have both Catholics and Protestants in my family (as well as people who believe in non-christian religions and atheists), so I'm open minded about it and it is just a reflection and in no way an attack to you or any side, but it made me think about a question, since it's one of the differences between Catholics and Protestants: how do you see the Saints? (either you personally or the Catholics in the United States in general).


I don't see why the story of the creation absolutely has to be either litteral or meaningless. Jesus uses metaphors and parables to convey ideas, so I do not see why it could not be a non-litteral story created to explain creation in a way that was easier to understand to humans (Humans who lived in 500 BC could have some difficulties to conceive a time span made of millions of years. Yes, aeons could have been used, but maybe there was more meaning in saying days to make it coincide with the number of days a week should have?).
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 5/2/2018 at 8:59 PM Post #33
Well, I'm not entirely sure what you're asking about how I see the saints, but I'll try to answer the question I think you are asking. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think what you are asking is who do I think the saints are, what is their influence, and what are they.

In answer to that, I'd say that the saints are those the Church has determined are definitely in heaven, and they are important because now that they are in heaven they will be able to more perfectly pray for us, and can help us here on earth. Just look up intercession stories of St. Therese of Lisieux.

And I'm pretty sure that's a dogma, so it should be all Catholics everywhere.

And I am going to get to the creation question. Eventually. That was at the end, and I'm doing the points in order, so that'll be at the end.
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 5/6/2018 at 2:00 PM Post #34
Third, fathers: yes we call all of our priests father. If I may pose a question to you, what do you call the man married to your mother?

the biblical verse that a lot of Christians interpret as forbidding calling anyone but God father is Matthew 23:9, and it says "do not call anyone on earth father." But Jesus was telling us not to honor any man like we honor God, not to never call one father. In his first letter to the Corinthians 4:15, Saint Paul says "I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel." This was a guy who walked with a lot of the original Christians, and he called himself someone's father. The Church considers all her priests to be spiritual fathers like St. Paul under the authority of our Heavenly Father.
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 5/6/2018 at 2:27 PM Post #35
fourth, Confession: raise your hands everybody who has never sinned in their life! *puts hand under table* raise your hands everybody who wants to go to heaven! *raises hand* raise your hands everybody who has committed a mortal sin! *raises hand*

Picture our relationship to God as a rope: it gets thicker when we get to know him better because we add to it, but when we commit a sin we cut parts of it away. If it's a mortal sin, then we are purposely cutting it off completely, but we need that rope to get to heaven. And, lets face it, we can't see heaven, so we don't always care as much as we should about getting there. In fact, God cares about us getting there a lot more than we do, because he loves us. That is why he wants that rope we cut to get fixed, even if the backlash from our cutting it hurt him really badly. And here's the worst part: we can't fix it on our own.

this is where confession comes in. Its actual name is Reconciliation. and yes we can ask a priest to go to confession at any time, but there are usually set times so that isn't done unless it's really important.

back to the rope analogy: so we have a cut rope, and we can't fix it, and God wants it fixed. God's the only one who can fix it, but we have to ask for forgiveness, and actually be sorry, to receive absolution and get it fixed. One more problem: how do we go through all of this with a God who, as far as we are concerned, isn't with us?
This is where the priest comes in.

Of their own power, they can't forgive sins. But God has given them the authority to do it. In John 20:22-23 it says "He [Jesus] breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.'" Priests forgive sins only through the Holy Spirit, but when they do that sin is gone as far as God is concerned after you finish your penance.

Or, using the rope analogy: the ropemaker is gone, but he taught a couple apprentices how to fix ropes with his tools. They can reattach a couple pieces of the broken ends, but only if we really want it fixed and are willing to get a few strange things for them that they will need. From there, you can keep building on it like you did before. Sorry, this one got really long, but I'm kinda glad I got to go into so much detail. Sorry if it wasn't necessary.
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 5/20/2018 at 2:45 PM Post #36
fifth, Mary ever Virgin:

who likes Bible verses? here's a few: Mark 6:3, 3:31-32, Matthew 12:46-47, 13:55-56, Luke 8:19-20, John 7:3 &7:5, 2:12, 1 Corinthians 9:5, Galatians 1:19, and Acts 1:14

you know something strange about those verses? Altogether, they represent every single time Jesus is said to have brothers and sisters. Every. Single. Time. Here's a couple more:

Isaiah 7:14, Luke 1:27, Matthew 1:23, Luke 1:34, Ezekiel 44:2 (this one is slightly more symbolic, meaning no one will come into the world through the same gate as the Lord)

These are the ones mentioning the Mother of God as a Virgin. Now let's get into the nitty-gritty.

first off, the word translated as "brother" in that first set of verses could actually also refer to half-brothers, cousins, and other close relations, not necessarily siblings born from the same two parents.

second, I'm just going to let the Catechism handle this one: "against this doctrine the objection is sometimes raised that the Bible mentions brothers and sisters of Jesus. The Church has always understood these passages as not referring to other children of the Virgin Mary. In fact James and Joseph, 'brothers of Jesus,' are the sons of another Mary, a disciple of Christ, whom St. Matthew significantly calls 'the other Mary.' They are close relations of Jesus, according to an Old Testament expression. Jesus is Mary's only son, but her spiritual motherhood extends to all men whom indeed he came to save: 'The Son whom she brought forth is he whom God placed as the first-born among many brethren, that is, the faithful in whose generation and formulation she cooperates with a mother's love.'" CCC 500-501

and third: this is the one that nobody seems to get no matter how many times I feel like I've heard it, so I'm just going to say it again:

FIRST-BORN IS JUST A TITLE!

It does not automatically mean that they had siblings. An only child is also the first born. No siblings required.
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 5/27/2018 at 10:37 AM Post #37
for easter:

a day of joy in a season of alms-giving, penance, and sacrifice,
the fourth Sunday in Lent is called Laetare Sunday, laetare meaning joy
"real men [priests] wear pink at least twice a year", although most call it rose

Palm Sunday: the Sunday before Easter and the beginning of Holy Week
A crowd gathers as Jesus enters Jerusalem riding on a donkey, and they shout "Hosanna"

Holy Thursday: Jesus and his apostles eat their Passover feast, but before they begin Jesus takes off his outer clothes and washes the feet of his disciples, performing the work of a slave willingly. Later that night, he and his apostles gather at the Garden of Gethsemane, and Jesus spends the what is left of the night praying.

Good Friday: very early in the morning Judas the Iscariot leads soldiers and other people to Jesus, and hands him over to them. During Jesus's trial Peter fulfills Jesus's prophecy and denies him three times before the rooster starts to crow. Jesus takes the horrendous journey to Golgotha while carrying the cross he will be crucified on. He is crucified, and dies at about noon. From noon to about three darkness covers the land. He is taken down and hastily buried later that day, as work is forbidden on the Sabbath.

Easter Sunday: Jn 20:1-25

Divine Mercy Sunday: Jn 20:26-29 https://divinemercy.org/new-divine-mercy-explained.html

the Ascension: Acts 1:9-11

Pentecost: Acts 2:1-41
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 5/31/2018 at 8:44 PM Post #38
Ok, I'm going to split this last one into two parts, mostly 'cause of the old "six is the evil number, seven the perfect number, seven plus one [NOT EIGHT] the super perfect number." I mean, I don't have another after these two, but perfect is fine by me if it helps me get the right message across.

Sixth, creation: raise your hand if you are God or understand everything he does. *puts hands under table.* I have very little understanding of the reasons God does what he does, and what little I do comes from what the Church teaches. So let's get started.

Yes God is more than capable of explaining hard things to us. HOWEVER, there is a certain point where things get into a .... state.... where our minds just can't understand them anymore. For example, HOW God can be both three and one at the same time, or how the Son specifically was the only one Incarnated. (Happy feast of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary by the way) We just can't understand them. Even St. Augustine couldn't understand EVERYthing there was to know about God.

Ok, so we can't understand everything about God, but we don't want to understand the Trinity, just the truth of the days of creation. Did I correctly guess what you were thinking? The next important point to remember is that this story wasn't written by God, but a human inspired by God trying to explain something we can't even imagine. The first day in Chapter one of Genesis? That's the first time that TIME existed at all. Before that, all there was was an endless, timeless void. and God.

Genesis was not written by Moses. It was written down by Moses. Same as I write down the pizza dough recipe for my sisters when they can't find it. Genesis was "written" by some ancient human, and passed down through generations to Moses. Who knows what exact words he meant the story to be told with? What we do know is that this man was trying to explain the creative power of God in the act of creating his masterpiece, creation. How could mere human words explain such forces? As such, he was forced to use the (likely few) words he had in a way they weren't initially designed to do: explain the workings of God. Plus, God exists outside of time. One of His days isn't necessarily one of ours. And yes, I know there are a million different arguments to this argument. But sometimes you have to stop reading the Bible literally, and get into the Spiritual senses. And don't forget that the second account says nothing of days of creation.

Here's the question I want to leave you with: The Bible is only guaranteed to tell us what we need to know to be saved. So what is the message God wants us to get from the first creation account, and does that message necessitate that it was exactly one week as we understand it?
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 6/4/2018 at 1:37 PM Post #39
hope you had a happy Corpus Christi. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVk7jhvhrLY
Laurelley
Level 69
Ghost Writer
Joined: 9/8/2017
Threads: 7
Posts: 227
Posted: 6/4/2018 at 5:29 PM Post #40
Point Seven, the Bible: literal or useless?:

Neither.

Some of it is literal. It provides some pretty good history, for example. Some of it isn't. Probably all of the stories Jesus told were made up to illustrate his point. That doesn't mean they're worthless.

But it does require interpretation. Great Bible scholars for centuries have recognized that. For Peter's sake, an Ethiopian court official recognized it! (Acts 8:26-31)

There are four senses of, or ways we can look at, Scripture. There is, of course, the Literal sense, where we take things exactly as the Bible says as original audience would have understood it. Exactly seven days of creation, exactly seven hundred wives and three hundred concubines.

Or you could use the three Spiritual senses: the Allegorical sense, the Anagogical sense, and the Moral sense.
The allegorical is what it means in relation to Christ, which is what Philip showed the Ethiopian; the anagogical is how it relates to the future and what it tells us of the future; and the moral is how it relates to us and how we should act. Like what it means for us if Onan was punished for what he did.

And that's about all I have for interpreting scripture. Literal requires a lot of research and knowledge of the culture, and the others all require a lot of introspection and thought.
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