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Forum Index > News and Announcements > Dungeon of the Forsaken Re-Tuned
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Author Thread Post
Dial
Level 75
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 2/24/2014
Threads: 35
Posts: 820
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 4:30 PM Post #81
so, i just finished a full clear and i went to collect my after-boss goodies, so i clicked explore, but nothin happened. i did a full clear yesterday with no problems, so idk if it's a bug or my slow wifi, but i logged out and then back in, but nothin happened. a few minutes ago, i tried again, and it let me collect so, idk
Krinadon
Level 75
Guardian of the Realm
Site Administrator
Joined: 12/17/2012
Threads: 1,114
Posts: 14,657
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 4:33 PM Post #82
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=45266&page=8#80
Author: Olooriel
Time Posted: 4/9/2017 at 4:57 AM
I understand that this is supposed to be Endgame content (as far as the current level cap goes), and I suppose it works great as such, but... I can't help but be unhappy with its placement in Umbra Forest, which is otherwise a Midlevel zone. If it's Endgame, it should have been added to Astryl's Vale, next to the other level 60 content. I understand that adding an entirely new dungeon would have been much more work, but having endgame content replace nice midlevel content always leaves a bit of a bitter taste for me. The dungeon was a great challenging battlefield for level 50 before, and there is nothing to replace this function, it just fell away. It still is the only place that drops level 50 mythical gear, but you now have to defeat level 60 bosses to get it, which seems ridiculous.

Also, remembering the way I was going through the zones when I was starting out, I would never have entered the next zone before I could beat the one before, dungeons and all. Back then, that was no problem:
Viridian Meadows - Nightfall Bandit Dungeon (level 25 mythical gear)
Umbra Forest - Dungeon of the Forsaken (level 50 mythical gear)
Astryl's Vale - Oh, pity, there's no dungeon or mythical gear :(


But if you do the same thing now, you would a) have a long and frustrating time before you can beat that dungeon and then b) realize that the next zone starts at a lower level, and is overall much less difficult than that dungeon.
Ideally, it should have been:
Viridian Meadows - Nightfall Bandit Dungeon (level 25 mythical gear)
Umbra Forest - Dungeon of the Forsaken (old level 50 mythical gear)
Astryl's Vale - Dungeon of the Woodsmen, or whatever (the new level 60 mythical gear)


And even with a warning that the dungeon is challenging and should not be entered before you hit level 60, I can just imagine the shock all our newbies are in for when they waltz in there as soon as their starter pets hit level 60 and expect to be able to beat it, considering that it's a challgenge for max-stat teams with all-mythical equipment, and newly level 60 players aren't likely to have/be able to afford either.

So, all in all, if a dungeon of this challenge rating were part of Astryl's Vale or the Megazone, I'd consider it an amazing addition. With its placement now, it kind of messes up the logical progression through levels.

I've played many games where there was a surprising "gap" of content for mid-levels that made playing kind of boring for a while, once you'd mastered all the newbie challenges but weren't ready to play with the big guys. I guess this is what happens if a game is expanded slowly while being played - longterm players are stuck on midlevel content for a while, and then the feeling arises that "we have to make this content more challenging for them", when in fact, that content was never meant for them and the only reason they haven't moved on to new horizons is that there's nothing there yet. Normally, they'd long have left that battlefield to the ones that are still challenged by it.


There isn't really sufficient resources available atm to have designed a brand new dungeon, especially using the Region 3 exploration system. So that wasn't a possibility.

Also, keep in mind, that while the Level 50 Mythical Equipment may be tagged as Level 50, it's still the best battling Equipment available outside of the brand new Ancient Relics from the same place.

Lastly, while the Dungeon was challenging for the past multiple years, it became 100% trivial after the new Ability/Proficiency update. Since I still wanted it to be challenging, I had to buff it. Since I had to buff it, I figured it was a great opportunity to adjust it a tad and add some new rewards so veterans who have already cleared it 100s of times had something new to work on while we finish up the MegaZone.

Also, the Nightfall Bandit dungeon was buffed to Level 30/35 for the similar reasons (nothing new was added though, but it had to be adjusted for the new Ability/Proficiency system).

The Arena will return soon and it will still be Levels 25 and 50. So that will still be available.
Krinadon
Level 75
Guardian of the Realm
Site Administrator
Joined: 12/17/2012
Threads: 1,114
Posts: 14,657
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 4:34 PM Post #83
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=45266&page=9#81
Author: Dial
Time Posted: 4/9/2017 at 4:30 PM
so, i just finished a full clear and i went to collect my after-boss goodies, so i clicked explore, but nothin happened. i did a full clear yesterday with no problems, so idk if it's a bug or my slow wifi, but i logged out and then back in, but nothin happened. a few minutes ago, i tried again, and it let me collect so, idk


Was a temporary bug.

It should be fixed.
Dial
Level 75
The Kind-Hearted
Joined: 2/24/2014
Threads: 35
Posts: 820
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 4:35 PM Post #84
it is, thnx x3
Olooriel
Level 75
Frosty Hands
Joined: 3/8/2014
Threads: 24
Posts: 694
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 6:53 PM Post #85
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=45266&page=9#82
Author: Krinadon
Time Posted: 4/9/2017 at 4:33 PM
[quote=815832]

There isn't really sufficient resources available atm to have designed a brand new dungeon, especially using the Region 3 exploration system. So that wasn't a possibility.

Also, keep in mind, that while the Level 50 Mythical Equipment may be tagged as Level 50, it's still the best battling Equipment available outside of the brand new Ancient Relics from the same place.

Lastly, while the Dungeon was challenging for the past multiple years, it became 100% trivial after the new Ability/Proficiency update. Since I still wanted it to be challenging, I had to buff it. Since I had to buff it, I figured it was a great opportunity to adjust it a tad and add some new rewards so veterans who have already cleared it 100s of times had something new to work on while we finish up the MegaZone.

Also, the Nightfall Bandit dungeon was buffed to Level 30/35 for the similar reasons (nothing new was added though, but it had to be adjusted for the new Ability/Proficiency system).

The Arena will return soon and it will still be Levels 25 and 50. So that will still be available.

Didn't the proficiency update make pets weaker at current levels rather than stronger? I don't quite understand why that would require an upward adjustment in levels, but be that as it may, the upward adjustment in levels itself isn't really my issue.

As long as Nightfall Bandit enemies say they're level 30/35, and a decently (non-mythical) equipped standard pet (like the one a new player would have been starting with, keep in mind that's base stats of around 20) at levels 30/35 will have a challenge, but stand a fighting chance, then I think that's fine. I haven't yet tried that to be sure it's the case, but from what I can tell I would assume so.

The way I understand levels as a measure of difficulty, something at the same level as a pet should be a challenge, something considerably lower should be easy, something considerably higher should only be doable with improved stats and/or the best equipment. Which would mean that a new player at levels 30/35 that does not yet have mythical equipment of level 25 should be able to fight his way through Nightfall Bandit Dungeon for a chance to get some - if all-mythical gear would be required before you could enter the dungeon where it drops, I would consider the game balance to be broken. (I had an easy time earlier today with a max-stat team of level 30 with all epic gear, so that does not seem to be the case)

In the Dungeon of the Forsaken, however, the situation is different. Those are not just your normal level 60 enemies, not even normal level 60 bosses. While the enemies say they're level 60, my level 60 base-stat team with all legendary equipment had 0 chance of entering there and surviving to the end, even while I was funneling potions through them. Players with level 60 max-stat teams and all-mythical equipment consistently call it a challenge - that does not sound like level 60 to me, that sounds like level 70. And best gear in the game or not, apparently you already need all of it before you can have a chance to win any.
Edited By Olooriel on 4/10/2017 at 2:51 AM.
Krinadon
Level 75
Guardian of the Realm
Site Administrator
Joined: 12/17/2012
Threads: 1,114
Posts: 14,657
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 7:31 PM Post #86
As I've said before, while yes, for Level 60 pets, they can't quite reach the same Stat # as before... in battles, they are 2-3x more powerful now than they were before.

For example:

Pre Change: 900 Strength = 450 Physical Damage x 100% = 450 damage per attack.
Post Change: 750 Strength = 375 Physical Damage x 200% = 750 damage per attack.

Even the loss of 200 Strength is only the loss of 100 Physical Damage per attack. But if abilities now do 200%, 300% damage instead of 100%, 110%... and now they have way more powerful Effects, etc. Pets are capable of way more in battle now than they were previously even despite the drop in Stat #s.

Pets were definitely, not even remotely, nerfed in anyway in regards to battling. They were massively buffed.


When testing the new Dungeon of the Forsaken, I used three Level 60 Generated Pets with random Level 50 Legendary Equipment I bought off the Trade Broker for about 100k Gold total, which I think was totally reasonable for a Player to have at the point they should be ready to try the Dungeon.

I also was using Elements not really optimized for the Dungeon or for the Boss Battles, which was a decent handicap on myself.

I was able to pretty easily defeat the first boss so right from there, I could start farming some Mythical Equipment and some new Level 60 Legendary Equipment.

After tweaking the second boss (monster arena), I was able to pretty easily defeat that as well with the use of a couple of consumables at the end. So again, pretty easy to reach this point and be able to farm even more Mythical Equipment and Level 60 Equipment.

While I was able to defeat the third boss and Vierna using the same pets and the same Equipment, they were definitely challenging and required some consumable use. I think the first time I finally got Vierna down after tweaks was using like 5-8 of the good Elixirs from Ethernia.

Once I used those same pets with the best Equipment available, I was able to beat Vierna easily without any consumables. If I had used max stat pets, it would have been even easier.


A lot of you have also been handling the Dungeon just fine. Already over 60 (out of about 150 who have even tried) of you have the new Title. The newest member so far to do so hasn't even been playing for 6 months. Other users are on Vierna right now with 3 months of play time. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Edited By Krinadon on 4/9/2017 at 7:31 PM.
Nightbane
Level 75
Knight
Joined: 11/29/2013
Threads: 288
Posts: 11,951
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 8:38 PM Post #87
about the relics, if i give pyromancer to my light-based pet, will it still be able to do the fire ability proc? just wondering
Nightbane
Level 75
Knight
Joined: 11/29/2013
Threads: 288
Posts: 11,951
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 8:41 PM Post #88
oh wait wait, sorry was also wondering, you mean defeat ALL 3 bosses for the new drops? DX

...*sucks at puzzle*
Krinadon
Level 75
Guardian of the Realm
Site Administrator
Joined: 12/17/2012
Threads: 1,114
Posts: 14,657
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 8:42 PM Post #89
Link: https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=45266&page=9#88
Author: Nightbane
Time Posted: 4/9/2017 at 8:41 PM
oh wait wait, sorry was also wondering, you mean defeat ALL 3 bosses for the new drops? DX

...*sucks at puzzle*


Yes, you can give the Relics to any pet.

And yes, you must completely clear the Dungeon for them to have a chance of dropping.
Nightbane
Level 75
Knight
Joined: 11/29/2013
Threads: 288
Posts: 11,951
Posted: 4/9/2017 at 9:50 PM Post #90
aww, umm, Krin can i have your guide to the door puzzle?
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