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Forum Index > News and Announcements > Change to Pet Public Sales
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Author Thread Post
Volinolona
Level 75
Guardian
Joined: 7/9/2013
Threads: 7
Posts: 196
Posted: 6/12/2022 at 10:36 AM Post #31
So... I read this, gave myself some time to think on it, and my feelings haven't changed. This particular change has limited effect on me, as I don't really sell pets and when I do, it's always a small quantity, as they are Themeds I have somehow collected and don't want. However, I have some concerns - unfortunately presented as word vomit since I struggle to condense.

Quite simply, directly meddling with a game's economy never goes as planned and players pretty much always find a way to nuke prices. It's exceedingly annoying to someone like myself who loves being an active part of the economy when I have the time and patience, but it's something I have learned to live with - and get around, as even if one market is shot, there is always another option.

Pardon me if I sound particularly dumb here, but I see nothing wrong with cheap 6v pets and I do not think it detrimental to the pet economy. You get what you pay for - a muddy, clashing mashup that needs a good cleaning with some dyes. They are not for everyone and I can guarantee you they are not meddling in any project sales. I also see no reason to try and gate newer players - having 6v pets right off the bat doesn't make the game any easier. They are not the most pleasing to look at, sure, but remember one man's trash is another's treasure - one player's muddy 6v is another player's favorite pet.

6v itself is not valuable. Anyone can take two 6v pets and mash them together to get 6v offspring. In a game where everyone can breed their pets, one can not expect to make good money via selling offspring unless said offspring is exceptional. This rule, which is basic supply and demand, is proven in other games, such as Wolvden, Lioden, Ovipets, Xanje, and Flight Rising. No matter what the developers do to try and improve the worth of the wolves, lions, pets, and dragons, they always dwindle back down to the player-accepted bottom unless they are something above average - Special bases, max mutation projects, mutations, hatchery dragonets, etc. Sometimes, these changes even hurt the game and cause people to leave - 'exclusive' one-and-done mutations, the eye nonsense, etc. There are also other markets in these games where you do make money - you just have to put in more effort than breeding.

I struggle to understand what is being considered 'one of the biggest core premises of the game' here. Breeding up to 6v/making projects? Earning enough gold to be able to afford pets that cost more than 100 gold/project pets from other players? Breeding and selling pets (addressed as non-viable above)? Making a project on Sylestia takes more time and patience than the average person has. Breeding up to 6v takes many long months and can even take years all depending on luck and what you want for your end result. The whole of Sylestia itself seems to be based on waiting and grinding. There are people who don't like those aspects, especially when it comes to breeding, so perhaps there are other mechanics that need changing rather than trying to squash the production of mushy 6vs because 'you're not supposed to do it that way.' I myself would be more willing to try to produce projects and high-quality 6vs if it didn't take so long I repeatedly lose interest in the game.

The mention of other changes being contemplated makes me a bit anxious, as anything else I can think to do is much more invasive than this.

TL;DR - This is a matter I don't really see worth pursuing, as meddling with a game's economy in hopes of 'improving' it never goes as planned and typically has a painful side effect that eventually blindsides most users. The change isn't necessarily bad and I honestly don't much mind it, but I'm not sure I would be able to support any further changes made in an attempt to squash out something that really does not seem a problem.
Mascot51
Level 62
Joined: 10/6/2020
Threads: 4
Posts: 104
Posted: 6/13/2022 at 3:01 PM Post #32
Whenever I join any kind of breeding sim, this one included, I know that getting my account set up so that I can play comfortably without fuss will cost me in terms of whatever the top game cash is, Diamonds, in this case. I spent a lot of real money via my Mastercard/paypal account getting my stabling set up to the point where the best way to describe it is 'massive'.

If you are an adult and like the game enough, if you are employed, spend the bucks to get the stabling set up because your hatchery has no limits that I have found. I've had as many as 30 tabs in the hatchery full at once. And I do that with a few days or a week between clutches. Because I did spend the real money to get my stables large enough to handle those kinds of numbers.
Mascot51
Level 62
Joined: 10/6/2020
Threads: 4
Posts: 104
Posted: 6/13/2022 at 3:12 PM Post #33
Volinolona's right, I've seen it too. Let's add Beastkeeper and Wajas to the list, as well as other games like Gaiaonline. You can't control an economy, politicians try it all the time and every time they do it crashes and burns.

Bottom line is that the average human being is not going to pay one cent more than they have to while getting the best product they can at the same time. That's why I keep an huge inventory at inviting prices. No matter how many people buy and release good pets instead of reselling them at a higher price (which is what such pets at those prices are actually for) I can breed more and do it at a rate that makes their efforts to control me completely useless.

Nice try though, and you make me wealthy by doing so. After all, I can get wealthier, faster, by selling at volume than I can selling at higher prices and hoping for the sort of spotty sales I'd get that way.
Katty
Level 75
Trickster
Joined: 4/16/2018
Threads: 169
Posts: 3,507
Posted: 6/14/2022 at 12:03 AM Post #34
I dont think Krin is trying to control prices just stem some of the people that breed everytime they can and price their pets for 100g. One person i saw their hatchery was 50+ pages of priced pets. Once they reach adult if they havent sold they are auto released. This kind of practise is probably what Krin is trying to stop.

As a max statter, its hard to sell my pets as i sell for 500k while others sell for 250k for their max stats. Why would someone pay double the price when they can buy the 250k one. granted the traits and vis arent always 6v/the best traits so mine might be preferred. The same goes for 6v pets. I have a 6v pb themed infertile im selling for 100k but someone might have a 6v non themed fertile they are selling for 500g.

People might prefer to make a project out of these non themed and dye them but most of the time these pets are bought by newbies who hold them till they require room for something else and they either offload them to a newer player or they release them. I was that newbie once too xD i had a whole stable of pretty 6v pets that i bought for 5-20k and i held onto them for way longer than i should have xD eventually they were released during a release event and i realized i still had a stable full of non themed. That stable became my first release stable fun fact :D
Katty
Level 75
Trickster
Joined: 4/16/2018
Threads: 169
Posts: 3,507
Posted: 6/14/2022 at 12:09 AM Post #35
"That's why I keep an huge inventory at inviting prices. No matter how many people buy and release good pets instead of reselling them at a higher price (which is what such pets at those prices are actually for) I can breed more and do it at a rate that makes their efforts to control me completely useless.

Nice try though, and you make me wealthy by doing so. After all, I can get wealthier, faster, by selling at volume than I can selling at higher prices and hoping for the sort of spotty sales I'd get that way."

^ Im not sure what kind of pets you are selling but there was a effort done by a few people a few years ago to buy fertile max stats and infert them before putting them back for sale at the same price they bought at. It got quite a few pets off the market and the person selling fertile max stat rys ended up drifting away from sylestia. There is still fertile near max rys out there being sold and it HAS tanked the max stat ry market. Max stats arent really where the money is anymore anyways. People want supers now and since that takes alot more work than maxing as you need to breed to a legendary to get the best stats you can and not lose those stats too much when you breed back to max stat ladies.... yeah i dont see supers sold under 800k xD
Mascot51
Level 62
Joined: 10/6/2020
Threads: 4
Posts: 104
Posted: 6/14/2022 at 1:26 AM Post #36
Thing is, don't use phrases like 'have to'', cuz it's just a game and I can breed and sell however works best for me. My pricing works and FYI most pets are at or below 3 visible traits. Never know when someone is looking for just the right mix of traits with colors for a project and I keep prices low enough that my stock moves at a good rate. I've been using breeding sims for many years and this is just one site in a long line of them

Don't try to teach this granny how to suck eggs.
Edited By Mascot51 on 6/14/2022 at 1:27 AM.
Katty
Level 75
Trickster
Joined: 4/16/2018
Threads: 169
Posts: 3,507
Posted: 6/14/2022 at 1:54 AM Post #37
I didnt say you have to price at a certain price, try to tell you what to do or anything like that. I was simply stating 1. that there was an effort to reduce the number of fertile max stats out there and it semi suceeded with a few still out there. 2. max stats arent really selling much anyways 3. that super pets are where is market is now and they require alot of effort. If you were reading the top part thinking that was me telling you what to do, that was a quote from your post. Anyways this will be my last post on this subject to you. Im not going to have an argument i was just reiterating what i said in my former post :)
Unstaeble
Level 75
Stoneheart Savior
Joined: 3/14/2019
Threads: 135
Posts: 2,316
Posted: 6/14/2022 at 4:12 PM Post #38
This isn't necessarily a "pay to win" issue. There are tons of other ways to get gold on the site rather than relying so heavily on pb/random bred pets selling and if you DO enjoy breeding/keeping pets (project pets, dishwaters, pbs, whatever), you can use the gold earned for more space.
There are multiple gold guides if you are having trouble earning gold, and I can personally recommend focusing on your missions and selling gear to the site from either LG runs, fest boss runs, or even dungeon runs as pretty consistent gold earning methods. When you have the option, tasks/quests are also nice to do since they refresh daily (weekly for some of the LG ones). If you're struggling with missions, there should also be guides for setting up mission pets. And as Katt stated earlier, there are ways to get free stables and diamonds through participating in the site's activities like forum games, contests, etc. Plenty of options available to both free to play and pay to play users; you just have to utilize them.

Humans like collecting things and sometimes that's rocks or Pokemon cards or pets on a virtual site; if someone enjoys collecting sylesti they'll learn take the steps to have a lot of stables by saving up gold they've earned to get diamonds/extra tabs if they can't or choose not to pay the site.

Part of Sylestia is collecting yes, but this isn't a direct copy of a lot of other pet collecting sites where you can only collect. Sylestia is also part projecting/breeding and part battling and I don't think it's fair to only compare to other games and complain when it's not similar enough to other games that are just focusing on mainly collecting. For such a huge game with so many features so that everyone can have a bit of what they enjoy, it's expected that are going to be some features that you also don't enjoy but that are important to keep the game balanced.

In general, I think so many people have latched onto using random pet breedings as a gold earning option that the demand for them has been too low to actually be worth it. Some players might not know of another way to earning gold which is why we have player guides, Q&A, and chats to communicate with others with since lots of other users are aware of more efficient and reliable gold earning methods.

If you just want to collect, that's fine but there are other aspects of this game that do require some form of balance; overbreeding and cheap sales do hurt the projecting community, which is another huge part of this game, and I think it's totally fair and reasonable for Krin to look for solutions to balance things out again between encouraging releasing of unneeded pets along with taking steps to decrease the mass breeding to sell.

You can still set up forums to sell pets in your hatchery if you're low on space and/or doing projects and can't put them up for public sale in your stable since we CAN still sell pets privately in the hatchery. While it's definitely more steps, hopefully this encourages players to find alternative gold earning methods instead of relying on the unlimited hatchery space for random bred pet sales and also encourages players to be more mindful of what they're breeding based on what space they have available.
Mascot51
Level 62
Joined: 10/6/2020
Threads: 4
Posts: 104
Posted: 6/15/2022 at 9:53 AM Post #39
And another thing, I don't really like most of the themed pets, they tend to be dull-toned and rather boring. A lot of them I take one look at and get grossed out, frankly.

I like using a dark but vibrant (jewel-tones) backgroud color and brighter colors over it to show nuanced layers, bright colors, maybe one or two muts and the rest Genes, I like designs that flow and I am a lot more likely to create my own Generation 1s and breed from there. Mostly I try to keep my 6Vis on the stud's side and breed to females that have 2 to 4 Vis just to see what I get.

My prices run a range between a newbie-friendly 3000g on the low side to from 1 to several million....these last ones, the high priced ones are the ones I breed from regularly, but will sell if you are willing to pay through the nose.

The majority (85%) show medium visibles, (2 to 4) are priced between 25K and 75K, they are priced for newbies, breeders and resellers. If it's on autobuy, it's for sale. If it's not on autobuy, then it's not and all asking does is tick me off. I am a very blunt and straight-forward person. What you see is what you get.
Edited By Mascot51 on 6/15/2022 at 10:07 AM.
Mascot51
Level 62
Joined: 10/6/2020
Threads: 4
Posts: 104
Posted: 6/15/2022 at 11:49 AM Post #40
On another note, after a few days of experimental processing of egglings, I find that this new system is quite nice, I can move my new-breds and price them as I go, which is expedient and saves much time.
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