I fully agree, and regarding the sides thing, that was why I was trying to use "pro-releaser" and "anti-releaser" in air quotes, and would refer to them differently. Because I don't think this is really a side V side issue, I think its honestly a lack of communication, and most people are more in the grey than on a particular extreme.

I just hope my intentions were understood, because from a few responses I'm a bit worried that they weren't. >.>

Sorry about all of the pinging, this should be the last one. >.>

I have made a post in the suggestions thread, this is the thread. If you have something else to add or feel there is something that should change about the suggestion, please feel free to mention it. ^^

:/

Thanks for using our 'discussion' push your own agenda and rehash a subject that didn't need rehashed.

I'm unsure what agenda you think I'm pushing?

I'm trying to make it so that there is less hostility towards either direction when it comes to releasing.

I just said I wasn't wanting to talk on this thread anymore so thanks for still pinging me regardless. It's extremely disappointing of you to actively try to bait people with drama for your own agenda. You blatantly ignored others making valid points and answering your ORIGINAL question of why this was such a discourse. This kind of behavior is why it's still a discourse, people who are so unwilling to follow the rules of the site and then actively ignore the legitimate concerns because it doesn't fit their personal views. Do not ping me on this thread again, you made it clear you have no respect for my opinions or to discuss anything respectfully.

I definitely did not consent to you using me as your little experimental test to see how releasers see it before using this thread as a way to further your point about how this 'discourse' could be avoided.

In fact, I thought the whole proposition of a suggestion thread about it especially so early on after the other thread was an awful idea actually, and I didn't want to be involved with *that* which is why I stopped responding to this thread and just left it be. Which is why I don't appreciate this thread being used as your example of the discourse or whatever-- and im sure im not the only person who feels this way.

It's like you just said 'lets have a civil discussion' and then turned around and used our 'discussion' as a point why you want such and such or think such and such.

Also, writing the whole issue off as *just* a miscommunication when its written in the ToS not to harass other players. I think it's a pretty standard thing not to go harass people for things they do on a pet game like its a personal attack, and even if it *wasn't* its stated in the *rules* not to do so.

Why do people almost always become defensive or hostile when someone says they don't like releasing? Quite simply, because the person saying it is almost always trying to dictate how others play the game.

I disagree that there's a lack of communication. It's more that many of those who are "anti-release" continue to try to force their views on other players, and are thus getting understandable pushback for it.

What the argument comes down to, at its most basic, is that non-releasers who complain about the release feature are trying to dictate what other people do with their pets. The issue is rarely that they don't like releasing their own pets - it's usually that they don't like other people releasing pets. If someone doesn't like releasing, they simply don't have to do it, and thus would have no reason to complain about it. Accidentally running out of stable space and having a hatchery release pets is unfortunate, but also completely avoidable (and players who choose not to avoid this situation and complain about it constantly are likely to not get sympathy after the first few times it happens if people already gave them advice on avoiding it.)

Complaining about people buying a pet and then releasing it is honestly something I've seen happen far too often. The seller got gold for it, it was a fair exchange, so what right does the seller have to dictate what anyone does with something they don't even own? Absolutely none. Krin has already made this clear. At best, it's someone complaining about a situation they themselves could have completely avoided in the first place, and at worst, it's harassment. Trying guilt people or making them feel bad for playing the game the way it was intended is generally where the argument is stemming from. If a non-releaser is getting mocked for complaining, then perhaps they need to take a step back and recognize where they're in the wrong. While it's understandable to feel upset by one's own pet getting released from lack of stable space or the hatchery auto-release, it's baffling that someone would go out of their way to complain because a pet they sold to someone else getting released when they're the ones who decided to give up ownership, and thus all rights to dictate its fate.

When someone complains about pets they sold getting released, what they're doing is basically complaining about another player. Of course they're going to be met with hostility. If you publicly badmouth another player, other players aren't going to think well of you and will treat you accordingly.

While newbies may not understand the feature or that sales forums exist, a link to [TEMPLINKREPLACE]Krin's post[/url] about it should be enough to clarify things.

The whole 'giving newbies a chance at nice cheap pets' argument kind of falls flat when sales forums exist, where sellers can have buyers agree to a non-release contract before selling a pet directly to them. And there are free/cheap pet giveaways in region chat all the time, so newbies being able to get nice pets is pretty much a guarantee.

In the end, as long as players who don't like releasing continue to try to harass/guilt those who do, there will likely continue to be a strong pushback response.

So... I'm going to preface this by mentioning that if my tone or wording comes off as uncomfortable, hostile, defensive, or anything along those lines, I hope that people will ask me for clarification. I can't help but wonder if my post in the previous thread was interpreted far more negatively than I meant it due to the points I was bringing up. I genuinely was trying to understand what appeared to me to be a contradiction in thought processes and explained why I found it contradictory. But yes, onto my response.

So, why is releasing a hot topic? I notice people against releasing making comments about how they are attacked or uncomfortable with the responses they get, but this road absolutely goes both ways. People who release get harassed as well. For me, harassment from anti-releasers has inspired me to become more outspoken about releasing. Here are some of my experiences of conflicts with anti-releasers:

- Angry messages because I bought and released a pet they had up for public sale. This baffles me. They did not want the pet anymore. If they feel bad about releasing, that's fine, but don't initiate an angry private conversation with me because of a pet that no longer belongs to them. As others have said, this is blatantly against sylestia's rules. If they want to sell to newbies only, make a thread. We cannot know the intentions meant for a pet just sitting out there for public sale, and in the vast sea of ridiculously cheap pets for sale (and collecting dust) I cannot help but wonder how likely it is that said newbie pet will even be found.

-Angry messages because I released a breeding project pet that never belonged to anyone other than me. I'm not even that much of a breeder compared to many on this site and I've still somehow gotten comments about this. When someone says something like this, I understand it likely means that they made the conscious decision to go out of their way and search through my released pets. They then decided they needed to make unnecessary commentary about the way I play the game. This has very little to do with the angry individual speaking to me, as the pet was never theirs to begin with. This is ridiculous and I'm absolutely not ok with it. I have friends who have had this same treatment. We should be allowed to do what we want with our pixels and not have people throwing fits about it.

-People initiating conversations with me, making nasty commentary about my friends and other users who release pets. Again, this is unprompted. I don't bring up releasing, because I normally don't care about releasing. However, if someone starts saying nasty things about other users and I feel it is unwarranted, I will give my opinion.

-Aggressive commentary on profiles toward people who release. Now... this one isn't quite as bad as the others due to its thankfully indirect nature, but sometimes anti-releasers have some rude commentary on their profiles about people who release. This isn't common, and it's not something that pops up in my face the way a direct conversation will. It's easy enough to ignore but I do feel it deserves some mention here. More often than not anti-release profiles are reasonable in their simple request that people who buy their pets do not release, but I have seen some rather hostile profile text before on this topic.

I have been a member of this site for a long time, and I've also been rather quiet about the issue for a long time. Being quiet does nothing lessen this issue of people pestering me about the way I choose to play the game. I would argue that my silence has allowed the problem to grow more frequent. When I say "frequent" I don't mean this is a daily issue or anything like that, but it's enough for me to feel frustrated. For years, I've been tolerant and respectful about the way people feel about releasing while enduring intolerance about things that shouldn't really affect these people. Report them, sure, but there are limits to what that will do here. In his work The Open Society and its Enemies Karl Popper uses the term "paradox of tolerance." I believe this concept is relatable to what I'm talking about here. I will always be fine with someone stating how they feel about releasing, but going forward I'm also going to show that I'm intolerant of people who refuse to respect the way I choose to play this game. No more silence.