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Forum Index > General Discussion > Releasing Discourse
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Author Thread Post
YureiNeko
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 2/21/2017
Threads: 82
Posts: 1,800
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 12:20 PM Post #1
Making this post because I've been poking around forums and hanging around in chat lately and I've noticed a lot of aggression when it comes to the topic of releasing. I've been a part of that too, I get upset when people buy my stuff and then release it, and I've even had people mocking me for it or getting upset because I complain about it.

I get that its a feature of the website and it helps with the economy of the site--And that's not my issue with it, but what I don't understand is why people almost always become defensive or hostile when someone says they don't like releasing. I've seen it in the forums with someone saying they don't like it and immediately getting swamped with people who become really defensive about it.

I think my real question here is why its such a hot topic? I do it, a majority of vocal people in the forums and in the chats do it. But if someone mentions not liking it, or wanting to change the phrasing because it makes them uncomfortable, it becomes a problem to everyone. I don't understand.


** I'd like to note that I don't like it because it feels like throwing things away. That's why when I do it, it's almost exclusively for projects. Not everyone sees it that way, I get it. But I get attached to things on this site, and when it feels like I'm throwing something away it feels upsetting. One of the things I'm referring to on this website is people getting upset because of that reasoning--Not everyone views the site the same way, but when someone experiences a part of it differently than everyone else it becomes a problem.


Clarification 1
This post is not made to debate whether releasing is good or not. It is to discuss why it *has* to become a fight whenever it is brought up.

Clarification 2

Clarification 3

Clarification 4

https://www.sylestia.com/forums/?thread=102587&page=2#19 Proposal
The link doesn't want to work for me lol

Clarification 5

Clarification 6
Edited By Yureineko on 5/17/2022 at 2:34 PM.
Unstaeble
Level 75
Stoneheart Savior
Joined: 3/14/2019
Threads: 138
Posts: 2,410
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 12:57 PM Post #2
Note that I mean no disrespect to you and I think this is a very valid question to ask since there is a lot of debates around this subject. I think you brought it up in a mature way and I don't mean to make this post to bash you or other non-releasers for simply not wanting to release, this is just me compiling my opinions around the discourse of releasing and what I think the issues are ^^ (sorry that it is a long wall of text lol)

I think a lot of releasers are upset with non-releasers as there has been a trend of some (not all) non-releasers who harass others for releasing. Players who publicly price their pets, especially for extremely low prices, cannot control if someone buys that pet and then releases it after but yet we still have players who will send PMs yelling at other players for doing so. While it's a player's choice to put on their About Me for players to not buy and release their pets, not many actually read those About Me's before buying pets on AS as well as users don't have the right to enforce what a player does with a pet after buying.

Those who don't want to release or who don't want their pets bought and released are encouraged through the sales conduct to price them privately, make a forum, etc because it's 100% up to a player what they do with a pet after they buy it. The one exception is when you have a pre-agreed plan for say, borrowing someone's party pets, not to breed, release, alter, etc the pet. Regardless of these rules, players who buy and release (I can speak from this first hand having received PMs like this) STILL get hateful PMs from some users about how they can't buy and release pets publicly priced and sometimes even insulting them for being a bad person for releasing. There have also been occasional issues where players make public blacklists of players who buy and release (which is also against the site rules to do).

I personally don't have an issue with players who don't like releasing even if I do disagree, but it's when players who don't like releasing try to push their playing style onto other players and tell them how to play the game that bothers me. Trying to control what a player does with pets after buying to the point of harassment, publicly calling players out or acting like they're a bad person for releasing, and even going as far as to try to tell them they can't buy pets at ALL if they're just going to release them.

I think the recent issue of wanting to change the releasing dialogue was about players wanting to prioritize other, more important changes on the site over changing the text for a select few. The argument of, "releasing is so cruel and we have to change the dialogue because we should view these pets as real animals and not be cruel to them" paints releasing as way worse than it is in reality and is based on a personal experience and interpretation of a select few. The site is set up in a way that encourages releasing and rewards players for doing so, if it were such a bad thing that some players view it as I don't think it would be so encouraged. By changing the text to be "less cruel," it'd be reinforcing the idea that "yes releasing is a bad and cruel thing." And since many anti-releasers don't seem to even share the same mindset of it being cruel and moreso that others didn't have the opportunity to have pets they would have liked, a word change wouldn't fix the general releasing debate and players would STILL be getting harassing PMs for releasing pets.

I don't believe the admins want us to interpret releasing as "abandoning real pets off in the wild to fend for themselves" as they dialogue we have supports that we're releasing back into their habitats. If some players decide to see it that way based on their personal style of playing, I feel that it's moreso the responsibility of the player to not cause themselves the distress of releasing pets rather than expecting the admins to change dialogue to better suit their personal gameplay. As stated on the other post, we take and capture these pets against their will with traps that they actively try to run away from so it only makes sense that we would release them back to their habitats.

I think players who don't like releasing have a variety of ways they can still enjoy the game, whether it be selling pets on forums/privately, asking others to do the releasing for them, or just not using the feature altogether. It's not on other players who do release to cater their playing to make non releasers happy when it is a 100% allowed and encouraged feature of the site and I think that's where the frustration comes from; feeling like releasers are doing something wrong for not going along with someone else's playing style of wanting to not release pets.
Vampory
Level 75
The Carver
Joined: 3/31/2017
Threads: 47
Posts: 2,992
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:00 PM Post #3
Because the anti-releasing side has not been entirely innocent either. There are a few people who have been very vocal about it. Both sides harass each other for their respective point of views.

I personally did not agree with the wording change because again, as I've stated, there's really nothing that implies that releasing puts pets in a horrible purgatory or abandons them. In fact, you can reclaim pets so doesn't that imply that when you release them you can obtain them from a reachable place? Like a shelter or such. I believe that the releasing vs anti-releasing drama is really just a difference in personal views, and that it shouldn't be changed to appease one side or the other.

You also have the valid viewpoint that these pet's are wild, and we catch them and domesticate them against their will, which then leaves the question of whose the real bad guy? My answer? No one. You can prefer to not release and I wouldn't care, but if you setup a pet for a low price and it gets released harassing the person for doing so isn't acceptable. Once a person buys a pet its theirs to do with what they want, most people won't buy a 75k or 200k themed pet just to release out of spite though. It could even be that they buy a theme to do a project, then when they have enough offspring release the parents for space.

It would have never been a problem if someone wasn't wanting a site change because they feel like releasing is too much like abandoning a pet... and again... not everyone has this attachment to their pets. But that's not to say that they don't have any attachment to any of them. I have a few sentimental pets-- and for that reason I would never sell them or give them to anyone who wouldn't appreciate them the same way I would. Changing wording would do nothing about people releasing pets-- in fact actually, it might make people feel more guilty about it because the suggested wording was a lot more touchy-feely and personal. Is it really right to make people feel as guilty as you for releasing pets? That's how I see it personally, and how some anti-releasers have acted. They way they act about it and describe it makes it seem like you're a horrible person for participating in the act. Why do we need a wording change to appease them? Why do we even have to appease them when its just the personal view that's the issue? That's the way I see it.

Plus, releasing is an inevitable part of the Sylestia economy, I bought a lot of 100-1000 gold dishwater bulbs to release for boards this Festival. The players I bought from are fairly new, young, or inexperienced, (which is why they've bred so many dishwaters to sell) so wouldn't you say that me giving them gold is a good thing? Releasing gives pet's value, even if it's just to 'throw them away'.



This will probably be my only response to this thread, since the other one was locked for being too 'dramatic' if Krin see's this one, I believe he'll do the same thing. I honestly believe this thread will stir up exactly what you were questioning in the first place. But I cannot deny that I may be a little 'aggressive' about the topic as well, but I think that's inevitable when the subject is one that has some very very deadset people on both sides.

Someone pointed out to me that I should clarify: Historically anti-releasers have harassed people just as much for releasing. That's why its a touchy subject.
Edited By Drowned on 5/17/2022 at 1:04 PM.
YureiNeko
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 2/21/2017
Threads: 82
Posts: 1,800
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:04 PM Post #4
The intention of this post wasn't to debate whether or not releasing is a problem or not, it was to discuss why it becomes a debate in the first place.

This is a community of compassionate, empathetic, and respectful people.

This post was to discuss why, with this one feature, it always turns into a fight.

I want to understand another perspective to this and discuss why it has to turn into a fight.
Vampory
Level 75
The Carver
Joined: 3/31/2017
Threads: 47
Posts: 2,992
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:06 PM Post #5
I just edited the bottom of my post to say why if it wasn't clear enough actually, but I'll repeat it here:

Historically people have been harassed for releasing pets, that's why its such a touchy subject is because anti-releasers have exhibited the same behavior in the past for not agreeing with releasing pets.
YureiNeko
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 2/21/2017
Threads: 82
Posts: 1,800
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:07 PM Post #6
Again, not the point I'm trying to make here. If I sound accusatory, I'm sorry because that is not my intention.

I simply want to discuss why this topic always has to become one end strong-arming the other. The rules of this website and the feature are already out there, it doesn't matter if its good or bad and it doesn't matter if it breaks any rules or not.

I simply want to discuss why people have such a big issue with discussing it civilly. >.>
Hiraeth
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 7/14/2015
Threads: 187
Posts: 2,685
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:09 PM Post #7
Thank you for bringing this up in a thought-out question~

I also find it very interesting, the great divide between releasers and anti-releasers.

I'll start out with my reason for releasing: space. I'm a project breeder, so space is a necessity. Like you said, any pets that don't meet project requirements are tossed to open space for future gens that do. I hardly buy anything i won't keep as well (unless its for release boards or patriotic fests).

I also tend to buy and release pets only under 1k, and that aren't themes.

I think there's been a kneejerk reaction to anti-releasers because some tend to repeatedly harass and berate people who release/buy and release, even if said bought pets aren't their own.

I believe people get upset at a wording change because it caters to those who think it's okay to harass people over releasing. I personally saw it that way, as I've had a few people harass me for releasing.

bottom line: releasers have gotten tired of anti-releasers harassing them (against ToS) for something that's very clearly not against ToS, and is actually encouraged. IMO it gives the same tone as 'stop being so good at a video game because it makes me feel bad.'
Vampory
Level 75
The Carver
Joined: 3/31/2017
Threads: 47
Posts: 2,992
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:12 PM Post #8
Because when you've been harassed over a topic of course you're going to have strong feelings and disagree? That's generally how most people... function you know? I'm sorry it seems like I don't really see the disconnect here.

Besides, I consider myself a pretty nice and respectful person-- but there are players on site I tolerate being friendly to for the sake of not starting up drama and being civil. I would not necessarily say that the community is completely free of negative personal opinions-- but luckily we're fairly good at policing ourselves and the community will educate new players on the rules and etiquette of the site. I can confidently say there are players that annoy me without harassing them or calling them out and keeping it to myself-- I would just say maybe that the community isn't entirely devoid of these feelings though-- I think a lot of us just keep it to ourselves or try and be mature about it.
YureiNeko
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 2/21/2017
Threads: 82
Posts: 1,800
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:17 PM Post #9
I completely understand this, and before I knew the ruling about releasing I did this because I didn't understand the rules.

Personally with the phrasing change, I don't really understand why it's considered a point of contention because it doesn't effect anyone other than the people who are bothered by the phrasing. But I could get the frustration with the perception of choosing one side over the other.

I'm honestly a little concerned with how this always turns into one side strong-arming the other side. I've had people who have harassed me through messages about releasing because it's in my bio that I don't like it, and I've had people purposefully buying my things to release them and then message me about buying them back.


The point I'm trying to make with this post is more of a question of why we can't respond to this feature in the same way we do everything else. I've bought things from people who message me telling me it was a mistake that it was listed, I've had people messaging me asking if they could breed with something I've bought from them before because they meant to get a few more eggs out. It isn't uncommon on this website to follow what someone does with a pet after buying it.

We are a kind community of understanding people. It's unreasonable to think that everyone would react in the same ways and grant the same level of respect and reason with everyone else, but I don't think it's unreasonable to be concerned with how hostile the topic becomes.
YureiNeko
Level 75
Hand of Destiny
Joined: 2/21/2017
Threads: 82
Posts: 1,800
Posted: 5/17/2022 at 1:22 PM Post #10
What I'm trying to discuss with this thread is why it has to become a fight every time the topic is brought up.

This topic is never met with understanding and the "discussion" part is often ignored for immediate aggression, or what I perceive as aggression because intentions are not always conveyed through text properly.

My hope is that the topic can be brought up without sides being immediately drawn, because as I've said a few times about this post, I'm not against releasing. It's always assumed with these posts that you're on one side or another and it becomes an "us against them" rather a civil conversation.

With being harassed in the past, I understand that its frustrating. But the past is the past, and there are rules on the site now to handle it. It shouldn't be an active issue anymore.
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